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Old September 4th, 2009, 06:01 PM   #5561
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it happens often. once i have even saw it happened (and it was quite bad for car, girl (of course) in Fiat Uno was driving on tram tracks where works were going on and crashed into opened hole between the tracks.
problem is because tram traffic can go on, so there cannot be put physical barriers for cars, only signs beside the road
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Old September 6th, 2009, 12:19 PM   #5562
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what do you think: why are there so many PT and railway fan on forums?

and wether are they a representative sample of the society or are they overrepresented?

from ideology viewpoint I think they are leftist/socialist/communist people, who wants the government to solve everything and manage peoples everyday life, and economy and efficiency is not their business...
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Old September 6th, 2009, 12:28 PM   #5563
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Well, I think the age group of students (16 - 25) are overrepresented on this forum, and that's especially a group who use public transport a lot more than say, a family with kids and parents in their 30s/40s. So that's not really a surprise. Plus, public transport is an interesting subject. I also find trains and buses interesting as objects.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 12:50 PM   #5564
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i am kinda railway fan. sometimes i am still crawling in forrests and meadows following abbandoned railroads and seeing a train excites me, and it is present since i was a kid.
but railroad section at ssc is not interesting to me (i only read it, rarely i write something). i am active on croatian railroadfan forum (although not very much as sooner, but still i follow everything there).

actually, i am traffic fan. i adore roads and motorways, railroads, when i flought for the first time i started to like airplanes, and the last thing, which absolutely surpriced me - when i traveled by large ship for the first time, i started to like water traffic, too
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Old September 6th, 2009, 01:38 PM   #5565
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and what about nuclear submarines?

an other issue is the (lack of) information...

if you want to know the revenues and costs of different trasportation sectors, you have to search hard in huge heaps of desinformation and information bits...

why do want goverments hide the real situation?

Ive heard not long ago that in hugary the rail cost so much that the government could buy a new car for every rail user in every year!

this is totally insane...
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Old September 6th, 2009, 07:16 PM   #5566
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People never think of themselves as users of PT but they always are hoping that government will force others to use it. It's in some peoples nature ... they are obsessed how others should live.

If I check PT in my village, there are on average 2 people on bus which pass by every hour. If government would pay a taxi for those people it would be cheaper... but the funny paradox is that we have more and more bus stations every year, even on main roads. I never see anyone waiting there.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 09:23 PM   #5567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pijanec View Post
People never think of themselves as users of PT but they always are hoping that government will force others to use it. It's in some peoples nature ... they are obsessed how others should live.
yeah, typical leftist/communist thinking... and most of the people think this way...

Quote:
If I check PT in my village, there are on average 2 people on bus which pass by every hour. If government would pay a taxi for those people it would be cheaper... but the funny paradox is that we have more and more bus stations every year, even on main roads. I never see anyone waiting there.
buses are OK because they are much cheaper than trains at low volumes...

we are planning a 2000km rail network reduction.
they will be substituted with buses which will be not only cheaper but more cosy because it can stop in the midle of the villages and can stop anywhere...

I hope they will do it quickly...

Last edited by H123Laci; September 7th, 2009 at 09:21 AM.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 09:31 PM   #5568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, I think the age group of students (16 - 25) are overrepresented on this forum, and that's especially a group who use public transport a lot more than say, a family with kids and parents in their 30s/40s. So that's not really a surprise.
yeah, this sounds logically...

but are they stupid?
cant they realize that this way of transport is expensive (for the tax payers)and unefficient?

or are they only egoistic?
(they can travel cheap (with student tickets), and they dont care about the real price which have to be paid by the tax payers)

Last edited by H123Laci; September 7th, 2009 at 09:17 AM.
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Old September 6th, 2009, 09:43 PM   #5569
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
Ive heard not long ago that in hugary the rail cost so much that the government could buy a new car for every rail user in every year!
Yep, that's bullshit.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 01:39 AM   #5570
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Guess whose birthday it is today - that of Chris! Happy birthday; what do you want for present; model of Struma?
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Old September 7th, 2009, 02:39 AM   #5571
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Happy birthday, Chris!
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Old September 7th, 2009, 08:55 AM   #5572
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Happy birtday, chris!

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Some of my photoseries: Northern Ireland, Prague, Boston, Alaska part 1, 2, 3, Smoggy Moscow, Warsaw, Wrocław, Kiev, Donetsk, Odessa and Chişinău.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 09:20 AM   #5573
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Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
Yep, that's bullshit.
I dont think so...
Hungarian railway costs 1billion euro/year for the budget...
there are about 100.000 passanger/day...

make the division...
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Old September 7th, 2009, 10:43 AM   #5574
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Thanks you guys
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Old September 7th, 2009, 12:11 PM   #5575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
I dont think so...
Hungarian railway costs 1billion euro/year for the budget...
there are about 100.000 passanger/day...

make the division...
You really want 98 year old people to drive? And what about 10 year olds?

The US model of full-car society doesnt work. They barely pay taxes,gasoline is cheap,yet,it is drowning them. Draw the conclusions. Look deeper into the topic.

As a sidenot:the cost of tracktion:
http://www.skyscrapercity.com/showpo...postcount=1184

It costs 53 HUF with an old Bz commuter train a km. Have an average 7l/100km for a car. That means 0,07l/km,or 20HUF/km ( I used 286 HUF,the cheapest in Budapest).

Good so far,now look at it from an other perspective. It costs 20 HUF to move 3,5 tonnes on road,while 50 HUF to move 30 tonnes on rail,or 5 people versus 200. Efficiency my ass. The car is as wasteful as the worst locomotive of MÁV. Go figure...

What costs a lot is the corrupt administration.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 12:44 PM   #5576
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
The US model of full-car society doesnt work. They barely pay taxes,gasoline is cheap,yet,it is drowning them. Draw the conclusions. Look deeper into the topic.
There is no full-car society in the U.S. The amount of people using public transport in the U.S. is about the same as in much of Europe, around 10%. The difference is that city transport is mostly done by buses. Houston's bus service has a daily ridership of 600,000. Los Angeles buses and (small) metro have a ridership of 1,700,000.

The major difference is that there barely is intercity public transport in the U.S. Distances are too great and rural areas of the U.S. are mostly less densely populated than in Europe. In Europe, many rural areas have bus services with a occupancy rate of less than 1%. In that case, rural bus and other transport services are just absent in the U.S.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 12:54 PM   #5577
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RawLee View Post
You really want 98 year old people to drive? And what about 10 year olds?
have you ever heard of buses?

Quote:
It costs 53 HUF with an old Bz commuter train a km.
cool!
and how much is the salary cost (pro km) of the masinist, conductor, ticket solder, vehicle cleaner, switch switcher, and their uncountable bosses and secretaries of these bosses?

cause I drive for free... (and pay enormous tax)

Quote:
What costs a lot is the corrupt administration.
it doesnt matter. the only question is the total cost.
and corruption is part of this cost. so MAV is extremely expensive.

corruption can be extinguished ONLY by extinguishing MÁV (HunRail Co.).
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Old September 7th, 2009, 01:07 PM   #5578
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
cause I drive for free... (and pay enormous tax)
Not nearly enough,I say it as a fellow driver.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 01:38 PM   #5579
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Quote:
Originally Posted by H123Laci View Post
it doesnt matter. the only question is the total cost.
and corruption is part of this cost. so MAV is extremely expensive.

corruption can be extinguished ONLY by extinguishing MÁV (HunRail Co.).
We have similar problems with our own national railway company. To make matters worse, the tracks support (at their very best) only the same speed as cars.

So, why would anyone bother to go to the train station, buy a ticket, wait for the train... when they can simply take their car or hitchhike if they don't have one.

And there is absolutely no interest from to replace the decrepit personal trains with some modern ones, like Desiro. The average speed of one of those personal trains is 50 km/h. In Switzerland it's 120 km/h, roughly the same as the fastest express trains in Romania.
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Old September 7th, 2009, 01:44 PM   #5580
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In my experience, the speed of the trains isn't necessarily the problem. The major problem is you need additional transport (buses, bicycle, etc) that adds up significantly to your travel time.

I used to travel to my ex-girlfriend a lot, she lived 120 kilometers away. Getting from station to station wasn't the problem, just over an hour. However, the total travel time from A to B was more than two hours. Once I got my drivers license, I slashed the travel time to 1 hour and 15 minutes by using my car.
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