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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:08 PM   #8161
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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:30 PM   #8162
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Awesome pic! I just keep thinking about the criteria used to allocate the parking spaces

Assuming there is no "shuttle service" inside the parking lot, the ones parking their vehicles on the southernmost parking lot do they daily quota of physical activity only by walking until the actual Pentagon.

But I love how the USA have massive parking areas. It seems modern, wealthy and progressive. I wish every major building in Europe had huge parking lots too. As a side effect, massive parking lots put buildings in evidence, enhancing the view of them instead of putting them in conflict with nearby buildings.

The Dutch government should build an "Hexagon" compound here in Netherlands. Drenthe and Frisland provinces are good candidates, as they are quite empty.
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Old July 17th, 2010, 10:43 PM   #8163
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A number of three-level parking garages would've been much more efficient. I mean, people like to park their cars as close to the entrance as possible. They don't want to walk half a mile or so...
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Old July 18th, 2010, 12:02 AM   #8164
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A number of three-level parking garages would've been much more efficient. I mean, people like to park their cars as close to the entrance as possible. They don't want to walk half a mile or so...
They have there own Metro stop and Mall. But the US feds don't care about properly land usage.


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Old July 18th, 2010, 12:06 AM   #8165
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But I love how the USA have massive parking areas. It seems modern, wealthy and progressive.
What can be "wealthy" on this kind of urbanism?
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Old July 18th, 2010, 12:37 AM   #8166
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They have there own Metro stop and Mall. But the US feds don't care about properly land usage.
So you have a typical situation of (relatively) free modal choice: a subway under your complex and plenty of parking. If people are going by car and parking that, something on applied microeconomics (choice theory) says me that there are intrinsic revealed preferences that contradicts the assumption that people are eager to dump their cars if they have reliable rail transit (and I know Washigton metro is quite decent).

Of course we'd need to know where Pentagon employees live, etc. etc. etc.

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What can be "wealthy" on this kind of urbanism?
It gives people more choice about places to live. I bet any car-centered massive complex like these has a higher dispersion (even if statistically adjusted for housing density) of a matrix of living places of those thousands of folks than one to where people commute mostly by train.

Thus, those people implicitly have more job choice, more shopping choices, more leisure choices, their "catchment are" is n-folded in relate to complexes built around mass transit.

More choice = more wealth = more freedom.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 12:45 AM   #8167
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that contradicts the assumption that people are eager to dump their cars if they have reliable rail transit
Well, look at any European country. Yes, car usage is lower than the United States, but only by approximately 10%, mostly because of the largest cities (Paris, London, Milano, etc.) It's even more interesting to note that that 10% lower average also includes a large proportion of population whose wealth is significantly below the U.S. average. (mostly central / southeastern Europe).

Actually, wealth does not seem to make a big difference in car ownership, for example several eastern European countries have a higher car ownership than the Netherlands, even if their GDP per capita is 50 - 60% lower.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 01:08 AM   #8168
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So you have a typical situation of (relatively) free modal choice: a subway under your complex and plenty of parking. If people are going by car and parking that, something on applied microeconomics (choice theory) says me that there are intrinsic revealed preferences that contradicts the assumption that people are eager to dump their cars if they have reliable rail transit (and I know Washigton metro is quite decent).

Of course we'd need to know where Pentagon employees live, etc. etc. etc.



It gives people more choice about places to live. I bet any car-centered massive complex like these has a higher dispersion (even if statistically adjusted for housing density) of a matrix of living places of those thousands of folks than one to where people commute mostly by train.

Thus, those people implicitly have more job choice, more shopping choices, more leisure choices, their "catchment are" is n-folded in relate to complexes built around mass transit.

More choice = more wealth = more freedom.
The DC region is slowly moving towards a more Transit Region. DC itself is becoming European slowly. With a Few New Transit lines UC and Bike lanes. I think in 20 years the DC region will be different , you won't see that anymore paved areas like that. More like what Chris suggest a few Parking garages. Once Northern Virgina & Maryland build there Regional Networks you'll see higher Transit usage. Here in the Northeast were different then the rest of the country , we think more European. As you will see over the Next 20 decades as we rebuild our Rail network that we torn up 40 years ago. Not all of it , but the Suburban and Urban lines , or important lines. Along with Intercity lines and Electrification. Look at that site , i find it interesting.

http://www.wmata.com/business/joint_...rtunities/tod/
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Old July 18th, 2010, 05:07 PM   #8169
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
A number of three-level parking garages would've been much more efficient. I mean, people like to park their cars as close to the entrance as possible. They don't want to walk half a mile or so...
And maybe it's because we're in yet another heat wave here, but I can't help thinking that a car parked under a roof will be more comfortable at the end of a work day than one that's been left in the sun all day.
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Old July 18th, 2010, 05:15 PM   #8170
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Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
So you have a typical situation of (relatively) free modal choice: a subway under your complex and plenty of parking. If people are going by car and parking that, something on applied microeconomics (choice theory) says me that there are intrinsic revealed preferences that contradicts the assumption that people are eager to dump their cars if they have reliable rail transit (and I know Washigton metro is quite decent).

Of course we'd need to know where Pentagon employees live, etc. etc. etc.



It gives people more choice about places to live. I bet any car-centered massive complex like these has a higher dispersion (even if statistically adjusted for housing density) of a matrix of living places of those thousands of folks than one to where people commute mostly by train.

Thus, those people implicitly have more job choice, more shopping choices, more leisure choices, their "catchment are" is n-folded in relate to complexes built around mass transit.

More choice = more wealth = more freedom.
I'm not quite sure that holds up. As a former resident of the Washington area, I know that the Pentagon is still a bit of a distance from downtown. I'd guess - don't have the statistics - that the Pentagon Metro station serves as many people from suburbs farther out who catch the Metro there to go downtown as it does people commuting to the Pentagon (who after all don't necessarily have Metro stations in their neighborhoods). People from DC commuting out to the Pentagon would be (guessing again) the main Metro users among Pentagon employees. A lot of those people from farther out in Virginia going into the city would have to pass the Pentagon anyway - hence all those highways - so some of them just get off the road there and use the Pentagon lot as a park-and-ride (I know a portion of it is available as Metro parking). Lots of suburban-Virginia bus routes feed into the Pentagon station too....
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Old July 18th, 2010, 10:23 PM   #8171
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The DC region is slowly moving towards a more Transit Region. DC itself is becoming European slowly. With a Few New Transit lines UC and Bike lanes. I think in 20 years the DC region will be different , you won't see that anymore paved areas like that. More like what Chris suggest a few Parking garages.
"European" means: paying a hell lot more for less quality. Think about that.
You Americans better invest in other fuels and more fuel efficient cars than in public transport and bikelanes...
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:12 AM   #8172
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I don't see how more freedom equals less quality...I like when I have the possibility to choose between different options.

IMO, the principal that you have to own a car to fulfill your basic needs is against human rights. I'm not against cars, I'm just saying that the percentage of people who for some reason can't drive(can't afford it, too young, too old, disabled) is large enough to require funding from the government for PT.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:26 AM   #8173
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"European" means: paying a hell lot more for less quality. Think about that.
You Americans better invest in other fuels and more fuel efficient cars than in public transport and bikelanes...
Our Taxes are probably = to yours. Sadly due to corruption and greed. Hopefully that will change as the decade grows old. We are building wind farms , we have plenty Nuclear power stations and Hydro dams. A Few Solar plants are planned , but alot of buildings and homes have there own systems. Were Rebuilding most of our network we ripped up , which is the right thing to do. Traffic is terrible here. Each state is doing pretty good on there 2030/40 plans , which will restore Rail lines that were ripped up and adding Urban Rail. Bike lane systems are growing popularity so cities are building them , not to the say of yours. We don't use European trains , thankgod. We use Asian - American Hybrid Designs. We the except of my state were we use German & Spanish locos. I like how Europeans want use to build more Freeways and better our fuel use , yet turn around and criticize us for not having enough Transit.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:32 AM   #8174
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Our Taxes are probably = to yours. Sadly due to corruption and greed.
They aren't. According to OECD, the net tax burden on the the EU-15 (essentially, Western Europe - Norway - Switzerland - Iceland - microstates) is 35,2% of GPD, whilst American tax burden is only 22,4% of GDP, by far and large the lowest among big, industrialized developed countries.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:41 AM   #8175
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They aren't. According to OECD, the net tax burden on the the EU-15 (essentially, Western Europe - Norway - Switzerland - Iceland - microstates) is 35,2% of GPD, whilst American tax burden is only 22,4% of GDP, by far and large the lowest among big, industrialized developed countries.
I live in the Highest Taxed State in the Nation. My property taxes are 10,000$ a year , do they have property taxes in the EU?
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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:50 AM   #8176
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Yes. In Poland for a house worth about $150000 my family pay about $40 of city tax per year and that's it

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Old July 19th, 2010, 12:55 AM   #8177
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A house of € 350.000 in Zwolle will cost you about € 350 in property tax. But it's useless to compare taxes directly, some are higher, some are lower. Fact is tax burden in the US is significantly lower than Western Europe. Some European countries have a 25% sales tax. Or an 40 - 80% tax on vehicles, or an median income tax of 52%.

A $ 10,000 property tax is beyond unlikely, unless you live in some kind of mansion the size of the White House. That's like a 40% net median annual income.

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Old July 19th, 2010, 01:01 AM   #8178
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A house of € 350.000 in Zwolle will cost you about € 350 in property tax. But it's useless to compare taxes directly, some are higher, some are lower. Fact is tax burden in the US is significantly lower than Western Europe. Some European countries have a 25% sales tax. Or an 40 - 80% tax on vehicles, or an median income tax of 52%.

A $ 10,000 property tax is beyond unlikely, unless you live in some kind of mansion the size of the White House. That's like a 40% net median annual income.
My house is worth 450,000$ and i'm not making up the number on the property taxes. You can look it up.
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Old July 19th, 2010, 01:06 AM   #8179
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You're telling me you're paying 40% of the average American net income on property tax alone?
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Old July 19th, 2010, 01:15 AM   #8180
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You're telling me you're paying 40% of the average American net income on property tax alone?
Just in a few states , New Jersey , California , parts of NY State , then its lower but still high in Connecticut , Massachusetts , Vermont , DC. Hench why you see a mass movement moving south & west slowly.
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