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Old July 24th, 2010, 04:03 PM   #8221
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Chris can I ask you if in the Netherlands you experienced the same raise in prices shortly after the introduction of the euro? In Italy we certainly did: even if the official change was 1 € =(circa) 2000 lire, most of the times it feels like 1€=1000 lire...
I think Italy experienced the highest growth in europe.
pizza for 2 euros , where are those times...
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Old July 24th, 2010, 04:26 PM   #8222
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I used to go to the barber shop: € 27 for just a haircut. But there are also hairdressers who will come to your house, it's significantly cheaper (I pay around € 14).
my hairdresser comes to my house to cut my hair. i pay her 2,7€ for that (in salon it would cost 5€). of course, it is illegal. but she is very hot, and i get that gratis
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Old July 24th, 2010, 04:27 PM   #8223
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
You're right about that, but I meant to ask if you perceived a raise in prices shortly after the introduction of euro. For instance, a pizza margherita used to cost 4000-5000 lire (2-2.5 euro) in 2000, but 5 euro already in 2003. We felt this, like... overnight.
That was part of a more general trend of inflation of service costs in Italy. Some prices were way under their appropriate levels, crushing income for small entrepreneurs. Problem is that after that period housing costs soared (though not to any level like those seen in Spain, UK or Austria), but that is another discussion.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 04:36 PM   #8224
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my hairdresser comes to my house to cut my hair. i pay her 2,7€ for that (in salon it would cost 5€). of course, it is illegal. but she is very hot, and i get that gratis
hehe, you're lucky. but I don't understand how is that cheaper, normaly you pay more if you request a service at home.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 05:38 PM   #8225
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That was part of a more general trend of inflation of service costs in Italy.
Well, a 100% raise in prices in 2 years is hardly due to inflation.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:00 PM   #8226
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Well, a 100% raise in prices in 2 years is hardly due to inflation.
In any case, your reference is sort of anecdotal. ISAT data reveals that there was nothing like a widespread, n-fold increase in prices as some of us, Italians, complain, by the occasion of the Euro introduction.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:10 PM   #8227
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In any case, your reference is sort of anecdotal.
Quite true. In fact I was speaking about the "perceived" raise in prices.

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ISAT data reveals that there was nothing like a widespread, n-fold increase in prices as some of us, Italians, complain, by the occasion of the Euro introduction.
Nobody cares about ISTAT in Italy. We know that they cannot be trusted, because they depend on the Council of Ministers. If ISTAT said "wait, the prices are going crazy" it would have been a self-declaration of incompetence by the Ministers.
Besides, their calculations are made on a consumer basket which is really ridiculous...
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #8228
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Quote:
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hehe, you're lucky. but I don't understand how is that cheaper, normaly you pay more if you request a service at home.
They don't have the cost of a building and equipment. They are mostly so-called "entrepreneurs without personnel", often connected with a larger company providing their appointments and administration. All they need is a car and a professional set of hairdressing stuff.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:22 PM   #8229
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Euro is coming to Estonia in bit more than 5 months and even though I like that we're getting Euro, I dislike all the coin-business. At the moment, the largest coin in Estonia is 1 EEK which is € 0.06. The smallest bank note is 2 EEK (€ 0.12) and the smallest bank note you can get from an ATM is 25 EEK (€ 1.60). As you can understand, things are going to change quite a lot. At the moment there's a sign in buses "Please don't give coins to the bus driver"(coins are just so much more time consuming to count, bank notes are in different colour and are easier to handle). That will have to go. Also, I can't really imagine people buying intercity train/bus tickets with coins which will probably be a pretty common thing from 2011. Coins in today's Estonia are considered pretty worthless stuff. If 50 cents falls to the mud, we let it be. If € 0.50 falls to the mud, you are very likely to pick it up.

About rising prices, I think prices will rise, especially in places where people often pay with cash. If something costs 150 EEK (€ 9.59), it's probably going to cost € 10 (156.47 EEK) in 2011. And that's already a price rise of 4.3%.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:26 PM   #8230
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This is maybe the only thing I hate at Euro. Coins are to large (in value). 2 Euro (and even 1 Euro) should have been bank notes.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:33 PM   #8231
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They round everything off to the nearest 5 cent in the Netherlands. We don't have 1 and 2 cent coins anymore in actual use, although they remain legal tender. You can still pay the exact amount if you want. Electronic transactions do not get rounded off.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 06:40 PM   #8232
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I think 1 and 2 cent Euro coins will have more usage in Estonia, though:
(Estonia's own Euro cent, BTW. . )

More photos here: http://www.epl.ee/artikkel/580238
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Old July 24th, 2010, 07:30 PM   #8233
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
2 Euro (and even 1 Euro) should have been bank notes.
Italy addressed this issue several times with the European Commision... but they've been deaf and blind
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Old July 24th, 2010, 07:55 PM   #8234
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Who needs 2 and 1 EUR bank notes - sometimes I think that a 5 EUR coin would be usefull (like the old 5 DM coin).


So you see, that all depens only on your experience with your pre-Euro currency. If you had (or have) prices with high numbers, you are more familiar with using bank notes also for cheap things like bus tickets. If you had prices with small numers before (like in Germany - exchange rate 1 EUR = 1,95583 DM) you pay small things naturally with coins.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:03 PM   #8235
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But you have to admit that:
1) It's easier to store bank notes in your wallet than coins.
2) It's easier to count bank notes than coins.
3) Bank notes are lighter to carry. It's quite important if you're a conductor in a train(who sells tickets), for example.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #8236
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also, for train and bus tickets is more useful, as it's easier to put coins in automates then bank notes. however I pay all (if possble) with a credit card, so I don't mind even coins for 500 €.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:06 PM   #8237
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post

But you have to admit that:
1) It's easier to store bank notes in your wallet than coins.
2) It's easier to count bank notes than coins.
3) Bank notes are lighter to carry. It's quite important if you're a conductor in a train(who sells tickets), for example.
4) Banknotes are way cheaper to produce.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:09 PM   #8238
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But then again, Euro coins are estimated to last for 30 years. The average age of a bank note is 1 year.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:26 PM   #8239
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Probably it's just a prudent estimate, like when they say "this satellite will be in use for 6 months", then when it works for 3 years or more they say "it has been a huge success". The vast majority of the notes I saw has much more than 1 year.
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Old July 24th, 2010, 08:37 PM   #8240
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3) Bank notes are lighter to carry. It's quite important if you're a conductor in a train(who sells tickets), for example.
Train conductors should not be selling tickets in first place. It's 2010, way too late to have conductors selling tickets instead of electronic ticketing or RFID cards everywhere.

They should concentrate only on giving information and fining people without tickets.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
They round everything off to the nearest 5 cent in the Netherlands. We don't have 1 and 2 cent coins anymore in actual use, although they remain legal tender. You can still pay the exact amount if you want. Electronic transactions do not get rounded off.
At least here in Tilburg some places like the Albert Heijn handle out € 0,02 coins. I usually store them until I have, say € 0,20, then I get other coins and buy a sandwich with a pack of them. The cashier never bothers to count, only when it is an old-and-not-so-friendly lady doing her shift there. She counts patiently every coin.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Nobody cares about ISTAT in Italy. We know that they cannot be trusted, because they depend on the Council of Ministers. If ISTAT said "wait, the prices are going crazy" it would have been a self-declaration of incompetence by the Ministers.
Besides, their calculations are made on a consumer basket which is really ridiculous...
As an economist with deep knowledge of statistics, I take pity on that declaration. The raw data (freely accessible) produced by the ISTAT is trustworthy and they have extremely competent (and underpaid) professionals there.

But people usually look at one, and one figure only, and start whining about (like general unemployment). I agree, though, they badly need a revamp in their PR strategy.
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