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Old December 4th, 2010, 04:38 PM   #9101
seem
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I am writing on ipad, I wouldn't buy nit just because if that but it is just horrible to write on that
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Old December 4th, 2010, 05:42 PM   #9102
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iPad is just a giant iPhone without possibility of phone calls.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 08:19 PM   #9103
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iPad is just a giant iPhone without possibility of phone calls.
There are iPads with 3G capabilities.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 08:28 PM   #9104
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There are iPads with 3G capabilities.
well, in that case it is only giant iPhone
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Old December 4th, 2010, 09:29 PM   #9105
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I am writing on ipad, I wouldn't buy nit just because if that but it is just horrible to write on that
Lol, I wrote a long post but I deleted it (crap iPad ) so that's what I wrote in hurry.

There is huge Apple shop in Bath..

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Old December 4th, 2010, 11:49 PM   #9106
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By the way, what makes you think this is misinformation? It's quite logical that Central European winter tyres are meant to work in temperatures around freezing point since it very rarely gets below that in Central/Western Europe(excluding the mountains but chains can be used there so it's not a problem).
Sorry, but I can drive without any problem on snow at -20 (I didn't encounter colder weather in a car up to now), winter tires available here hold grip very well.
Maybe you're mixing winter and summer tires, summer tires indeed don't work good at temperatures below freezing point. It is completely illogical having winter tires, that wouldn't work good at temperatures below (for example) -5, which is pretty common winter temperature in whole Central Europe.
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Old December 4th, 2010, 11:51 PM   #9107
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They do have special fuel in very cold areas.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:05 AM   #9108
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Sorry, but I can drive without any problem on snow at -20 (I didn't encounter colder weather in a car up to now), winter tires available here hold grip very well.
Maybe you're mixing winter and summer tires, summer tires indeed don't work good at temperatures below freezing point. It is completely illogical having winter tires, that wouldn't work good at temperatures below (for example) -5, which is pretty common winter temperature in whole Central Europe.
OK, lets just the drop the temperature and agree that there are different types of winter tyres for different regions. Winter tyres sold in Nordic countries offer more grip on ice and snow but less grip on dry and wet asphalt than winter tyres sold in Central/Western Europe. I know because I am a frequent reader of the main technics magazine(Tehnikamaailm) and the main car magazine (Autoleht) in Estonia. Both of them have thorough winter-tyre test reviews every autumn. And this year Autoleht put one Central European winter tyre into the test just for comparison.


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They do have special fuel in very cold areas.
Not only in very cold areas. As you may know, regular diesel fuel turns pretty much into a pudding below a certain temperature(A rough guess is -10...-15C). It's actually mandatory by law in Estonia to sell only that kind of diesel during winter that has been modified to stay liquid at low temperatures. Neste(a major finnish fuel company), for example, claims that their winter-diesel is usable even at -35C...
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:09 AM   #9109
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They do have special fuel in very cold areas.
Sure they have. But I don't consider Estonia as "very cold area" so that they would need different winter tires as Central Europe. All winter tires, sold in CE are tested in north of Scandinavia in very harsh conditions.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:20 AM   #9110
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Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
OK, lets just the drop the temperature and agree that there are different types of winter tyres for different regions. Winter tyres sold in Nordic countries offer more grip on ice and snow but less grip on dry and wet asphalt than winter tyres sold in Central/Western Europe.
There is a great (almost enormous) difference between tires themselves. For example, I use Sava tires (Slovenian manufacturer, made in Poland in Goodyear factory, but in Slovenia Sava company produces Goodyear tires - great wonders of globalisation), which are excellent in snow, but bad on dry or wet road. But many tires of renowned manufacturers are much better on wet or dry and not as good in snow.

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And this year Autoleht put one Central European winter tyre into the test just for comparison.
Maybe they should compare more examples, not just one.

As I know, there is a major winter/summer tire test of most Europe autoclubs (combined) every year and they never mentioned any difference.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 12:58 AM   #9111
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I also use winter Sava S3. fantastic thing on the snow and ice, but on asphalt they are quite poor. does it mean they are made for Finland?
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Old December 5th, 2010, 02:35 PM   #9112
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Sure they have. But I don't consider Estonia as "very cold area" so that they would need different winter tires as Central Europe. All winter tires, sold in CE are tested in north of Scandinavia in very harsh conditions.
Why do you keep argueing with me when I clearly know more about this subject? To show you that even one manufacturer has different tyres for different regions, look at this winter tyre test: http://www.tehnikamaailm.ee/pictures/Rehvitest.pdf .This test is from year 2009. The results for non-studded winter tyres are at pages 10-11. You can see that Michelin has 2 different winter tyres in that test. The Nordic version got 7.5/10 points and the Central European version got 6.5/10.
I'll roughly translate what's written under Michelin Primacy Alpin: "Michelin got the chance to show how a winter tyre designed for Central Europe handles the really serious winter conditions. The main problem is grip on ice, or actually the lack of it. But wherever winter only means wet asphalt, the tyre performs very well. It handles like a summer tyre[in a good way] and the "deer test" is doable even at high speeds. With a speed class of H or higher, some of these tyres may also reach our market but before buying them one should seriously consider that they are not really suitable for our winter conditions."
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Old December 5th, 2010, 07:47 PM   #9113
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Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Why do you keep argueing with me when I clearly know more about this subject?
Because of this (few posts back):
Quote:
It's quite logical that Central European winter tyres are meant to work in temperatures around freezing point since it very rarely gets below that in Central/Western Europe(excluding the mountains but chains can be used there so it's not a problem).
which is quite absurd statement, especially regarding Central Europe.

Now I see, that you have different tires in the north(different models, not just versions).
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Old December 5th, 2010, 08:26 PM   #9114
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which is quite absurd statement, especially regarding Central Europe.
Well, I checked Wikipedia for weather figures of major Central European cities and I found only a few place where the average low temperature in January is below -5C.
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Old December 5th, 2010, 09:17 PM   #9115
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Well, I checked Wikipedia for weather figures of major Central European cities and I found only a few place where the average low temperature in January is below -5C.
There is a difference between average and abolute.
We usually don't have often temperatures below -10 (they are every year, but just some days or weeks), but they are enough common to be considered for tire manufactures, especially outside cities and towns. From my experience, I really need winter tires between 5-10 days per season because of snow, some years maybe even zero days (otherwise summer tires would be safe enough), but still I wouldn't consider having summer tires thorough winter.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 03:10 AM   #9116
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There is a difference between average and abolute.
We usually don't have often temperatures below -10 (they are every year, but just some days or weeks)
We just had a solid -5 (day) to -15 (night) the whole last week in Germany... and that's not really unusual for the start of winter. January/February, if it doesn't get warm, we're looking at Tmin around -20 for at least 5-10 days.
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Old December 6th, 2010, 07:15 PM   #9117
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Apartments blown to smithereens in Alphen a.k.a. Alphenhüttenstadt:

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Old December 6th, 2010, 07:18 PM   #9118
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^ OMG! Any victim ?

===============

Quote:
Originally Posted by keber View Post
From my experience, I really need winter tires between 5-10 days per season because of snow, some years maybe even zero days (otherwise summer tires would be safe enough), but still I wouldn't consider having summer tires thorough winter.
The government is determined to change the law in Romania in order to make using of winter tires mandatory during the winter. However, it was a fierce public debate in media about it/against it, and the decision has been postponed.
However, the winter is here and it's gonna stay for awhile:







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Old December 6th, 2010, 07:45 PM   #9119
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Apartments blown to smithereens in Alphen a.k.a. Alphenhüttenstadt:
Apartments like that in the UK have a name for those things.
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Old December 7th, 2010, 12:04 PM   #9120
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However, the winter is here and it's gonna stay for awhile:
nice winter scenery. how high is that road?
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