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Old April 9th, 2012, 02:11 PM   #13141
MajKeR_
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I agree. And when we include to this hurry political matters, like in Hungary...
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 02:22 PM   #13142
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Entering Eurozone is not only a question of fullfilling some criteria which if wanted could have already been fullfilled by the Czech Republic. It is more importandly question of whether it is profitable and good for a country and whether it is desired by it. There is really not much of such a desire in the CZ apart from the exporting business.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #13143
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my eastereggs

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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:05 PM   #13144
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Entering Eurozone is not only a question of fullfilling some criteria which if wanted could have already been fullfilled by the Czech Republic. It is more importandly question of whether it is profitable and good for a country and whether it is desired by it. There is really not much of such a desire in the CZ apart from the exporting business.
In many countries the introduction of the euro generated a fast rise of prices because many retailers cheated on exchange rates and in rounding sums. However, all EU countries, except UK and DK who negotiated opt-outs, will be forced to adopt the euro sooner or later.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 03:54 PM   #13145
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In many countries the introduction of the euro generated a fast rise of prices because many retailers cheated on exchange rates and in rounding sums. However, all EU countries, except UK and DK who negotiated opt-outs, will be forced to adopt the euro sooner or later.
This is very strange because prices in the UK rose (and are still rising) faster than in the Eurozone countries.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 04:09 PM   #13146
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Originally Posted by Pansori

This is very strange because prices in the UK rose (and are still rising) faster than in the Eurozone countries.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; April 9th, 2012 at 05:46 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 04:13 PM   #13147
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Originally Posted by Pansori

This is very strange because prices in the UK rose (and are still rising) faster than in the Eurozone countries.
Yes, but in Italy there was a sharp rise of prices (at least in some sectors) just after the changeover. It was easy for some retailers cheating on the exchange rate. If a price changed from £1000 to £1200 everybody would notice it, but if they converted 1000£ as 0,56€ instead of 0,52 it would be more difficult to be discovered.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #13148
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Originally Posted by Pansori View Post
This is very strange because prices in the UK rose (and are still rising) faster than in the Eurozone countries.
What is about is a one time change right by the introduction of euro. In the first euro-nations it was around 4-7%, in nations that joined later it was 2-5% due to stricter checkings.
It is called "cup of coffee inflation" since the cheaper something is the rise of prices the greater was. For a cup of coffee it could be even around 50%.
It was all about rounding the prices. E.g. 1 euro = 6.56 French francs. The price of something that had a price of 9.99 fr should have been € 1.52, however usually the price was moved to € 1.59 which is a rise of 4.5% at once.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 05:32 PM   #13149
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Yes, but in Italy there was a sharp rise of prices (at least in some sectors) just after the changeover. It was easy for some retailers cheating on the exchange rate. If a price changed from £1000 to £1200 everybody would notice it, but if they converted 1000£ as 0,56€ instead of 0,52 it would be more difficult to be discovered.
i think that many prices have been changed just erasing 3 zeroes (so from 1000 ITL to 1€)
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Old April 9th, 2012, 05:49 PM   #13150
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i think that many prices have been changed just erasing 3 zeroes (so from 1000 ITL to 1€)
Unfortunately also this happened, although it wasn't the rule.

Another kind thing happened here was that we used to give little importance to coins. In fact our biggest coin was for a long time the 500£, that was just 0,26EUR. In 1997 we introduced the 1000£ coin but it wasn't so widespread and the 1000£ note (0,52EUR) remained more common.
When EUR was introduced, we used to feel cheap all things that we could pay with coins, although we used notes to buy them before. The 5000£ note was around 2,5EUR but we felt it as important (there were smaller notes, 1000 and 2000). Later, people started to waste more easily their 1 and 2EUR coins because 'coins have little value'.
I know that is not rational, but psychology has a lot of influence in personal purchasings. Retailers who price they merchandise EUR0,99 or EUR19,90 know it very well.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; April 9th, 2012 at 06:04 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 06:49 PM   #13151
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What a small note that of 5000 lire! It was even less worth than our biggest coin, the 500 peseta one. And this one had more value than current €2 coins (It was €3.01).

Anyway, I prefer $1 bills, which (currently) have a value of 76 eurocents or sth like that.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 07:14 PM   #13152
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Quote:
Originally Posted by CNGL
What a small note that of 5000 lire! It was even less worth than our biggest coin, the 500 peseta one. And this one had more value than current €2 coins (It was €3.01).

Anyway, I prefer $1 bills, which (currently) have a value of 76 eurocents or sth like that.
As I wrote before, we had until 2002 noted smaller than 5000£.(1000 and 2000). For this reason many Italians liked the idea of the 1€ note.

And at home I have an 1 lira note from 1930s, 10 cents of lira coin from 1867 and 1 cent of lira from 1893.
I've also a British pound from 1889 and 3 cents from Austria-Hungary (1852).
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #13153
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In many countries the introduction of the euro generated a fast rise of prices because many retailers cheated on exchange rates and in rounding sums. However, all EU countries, except UK and DK who negotiated opt-outs, will be forced to adopt the euro sooner or later.
First. No one can be forced to adopt euro, there is no enforcing mechanism... It is also a question whether accepting euro means the same thing as few years earlier, because the euro countries are now bound by different treaties that were not in action in 2004, thus promising to enter eurozone didnt mean to enter eurozone as it is now... Thats from the practical and legal point. Anyway. You can promise anything, but as long as you are a sovereing country no one can make you deliver if he doesnt use tanks and soldiers, which I guess is not an issue here.... lol

Second on the inflation.
As already noted there is something as one time price rise due to the rounding and bit of price cheating etc.. This is marginal and not important.

There is indeed inflationary pressure in the countries whose economy converges with the eurozone main economies, since the transmition mechanism of the exchange rate is gone and the only way how the economy can converge is through rise in the wages and prices. Certainly when you enter eurozone you lose the exchange rate conversion mechanism and that is certainly not good for majority of population. On the other side it is quite supportive to the exporting business.

There is very little inflation induced by the entrance of the eurozone aside from these effects. What is really funny is to hear for example the dutch or germans complaining about the inflation due to the euro introduction. There is no reason to this. This is purely psychological effect. Inflation would be present with or without euro, as it is present allways. Everyone in every country remembers the old good times when beer was cheaper etc. It is just easy to say, that the euro brought the expensive times...

Dont forget that the euro exists and the national currencies are only "names" for it in the national states already since 1999 and not 2002.

just check some inflation data e.g. eurostat or OECD



There is no break point neither in the 1999 or 2002 and if there are, then for those less disciplined countries where the inflation dropped rapidly...

I am not going into the question that the inflation as measured today is many times not really giving the right picture about the rise in living costs, because that is a debate far beyond this forum.

Last edited by Surel; April 9th, 2012 at 11:13 PM.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:24 PM   #13154
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As already noted there is something as one time price rise due to the rounding and bit of price cheating etc.. This is marginal and not important.
Sure. But it made a bad feeling about euro-introduction. The first experience of people with the new currency was that small things that they buy every day, got more expensive.
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Old April 9th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #13155
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What a small note that of 5000 lire!
Our smallest banknote was 10 SIT (Slovenian tolars) = 0.04 EUR. Coins were just a nuisance for our wallets.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 12:23 AM   #13156
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Originally Posted by Verso

Our smallest banknote was 10 SIT (Slovenian tolars) = 0.04 EUR. Coins were just a nuisance for our wallets.
Did you use cents of tolar?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 01:48 AM   #13157
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Did you use cents of tolar?


€0.0004

However, 10 and 20 cents (stotins) were never in use, but you could've paid with them, if you had found them somewhere (once I found 20 cents on the floor). 50 cents (€0.002) were in use in 1990s, but they slowly disappeared as well, so de facto lowest was then 1 SIT (€0.004). The highest banknote was for 10,000 SIT (€42).
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Old April 10th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #13158
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf
Yes, but in Italy there was a sharp rise of prices (at least in some sectors) just after the changeover. It was easy for some retailers cheating on the exchange rate. If a price changed from £1000 to £1200 everybody would notice it, but if they converted 1000£ as 0,56€ instead of 0,52 it would be more difficult to be discovered.
This was a short term effect which did not affect or change anything in a longer term.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 11:24 AM   #13159
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Originally Posted by Verso

€0.0004

However, 10 and 20 cents (stotins) were never in use, but you could've paid with them, if you had found them somewhere (once I found 20 cents on the floor). 50 cents (€0.002) were in use in 1990s, but they slowly disappeared as well, so de facto lowest was then 1 SIT (€0.004). The highest banknote was for 10,000 SIT (€42).
In Italy the smallest coin in use was 50£ (0,026EUR). Lower denominations, although tecnically still legal, were largely unused in the last years. 1 and 2 lire were used until 50s or early 60s, 5, 10 and 20£ until 80s I think. They used to give a small candy as change when there were no small coins in circulation because we had prices such £4990 until 2002.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 10th, 2012, 11:43 AM   #13160
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The official inflation caused by the euro in Estonia was 0.1%. The rest of the 5% in total was already usual for us since we have had very high inflation rates for a decade or so.
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