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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #13321
g.spinoza
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I know all of this, but the very fact that a person like Gorbachëv was elected is something to consider. Why would Politburo, a totalitarian entity, elect a anti-authoritarian president?

Had Soviet Union been ruled by, say, a new Brezhnev, people would have though twice before going in the squares and meet Jan Palach's end.

And I have the impression that church's role in this has been grossly exaggerated by catholics and papists, but I not well informed about this.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:11 PM   #13322
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I was 15 in 1989. I, as a Hungarian, of course observed Romanian happenings, for it is a neighbor nation and has an important Hungarian minority (close to 2.5 million people in the '80s).
I must say things in Romania were far not so bad as in North Korea, but trends were similar. The main difference is that Ceausescu had no real military plans, Romanian army was far not so big as the North Korean one now.
Private property was not so strongly forbidden as in DPRK, many people had an own car (alright, it was a Dacia or that Citroen licensed car that I forgot the name of, but they had one) and famine was unknown - while in DPRK millions of people died in famines.

Romania under Ceausescu was not the land of dreams but neither was such a hell as North Korea.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:15 PM   #13323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
or that Citroen licensed car that I forgot the name of, but they had one
My parents had 2 Oltcit cars, but only after '89. Before they were car-less.




Check the signal buttons
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #13324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
And I have the impression that church's role in this has been grossly exaggerated by catholics and papists, but I not well informed about this.
In Poland the role of church was really important, but only there.
There were two reasons for that:
First the Polish are faithful catholics, even now more than 40% of the population visits a church at leas once a week, in the late 70s it was over 50%.
Second, afther having only Italian popes through 500 years, a Polish bishop named Karol Wojtyla was elected in 1978. It turned many Polish people to the church, at least partially (I mean they didn't go to Holy Mass every Sunday but were influenced by the church).
The muder of the Polish priest Jerzy Popieluszko in 1984 was an important incident which started a movement in Poland which turned to the collapse of communism over there.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:32 PM   #13325
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Again, I know all of this - except the Popieluszko murder, I have to find some more info - but I'm not sure that the mere election of a Polish Pope and the assassination of one priest could have started something. I mean, Tiananmen facts were far more important, but they didn't change much in China; the same self sacrifice of Palach in Czechoslovakia, made much impression in the West - and no doubt in the East as well - but didn't have a real effect on things per se.

I really don't have of the puzzle pieces to put together and that's a very big limitation on my side. Next book I'm gonna buy is something about the end of Communism.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #13326
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North Koreans are masters of moving images at the stadium. It looks like you're watching LED screens.



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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #13327
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Again, I know all of this - except the Popieluszko murder, I have to find some more info - but I'm not sure that the mere election of a Polish Pope and the assassination of one priest could have started something. I mean, Tiananmen facts were far more important, but they didn't change much in China; the same self sacrifice of Palach in Czechoslovakia, made much impression in the West - and no doubt in the East as well - but didn't have a real effect on things per se.
I grew up in Hungary but I tell you the name of Palach was unknow buth for me and my parents. First time I heard his name was after 1989.
I suppose you've heard about Solidarnosc and Walesa. The Polish regime had to have martial law from late '81 to mid '83. People were afraid in the mid '80s. The church had an important role for motivate people for starting a new resistance. The pope himself visited Poland several times (Jaruzelski did not dare to deny him visiting his home): 1979, 1983, 1987 and spoke agains communism. And, once again: half of the population listened to a priests' speech in a church every Sunday. You cannot avoid such a great influnce, not any other organization had so many followers, not even near to that!
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #13328
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Poland was the only communist country to have an influent internal resistance since the early 80s. The Solidarnost movement operated with strikes and paceful demonstrations involving thousands of people. Surely the church had an influence but it wasn't all.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 04:54 PM   #13329
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Yes I know about Walesa and Solidarnosc.

This is all very interesting and it pushes me even more to widen my knowledge in this matter. But I think we should end this massive OT, even in a OT thread!

Thanks everybody for your insights.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 05:26 PM   #13330
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If we are still talking about Romania, here a funny article:

http://kingofromania.com/2012/04/20/worth-it-2/

Quote:
I was wondering, after staying this long in RO, does it still seems that great? I feel like leaving this country…

Well hell, if you read yesterday’s post, you know sometimes I get the urge to pack my bags and go as well. But hey, I’ve said that about a million times before and I’m still here, a source of shock not only to my friends and family in America but to me as well :P

The short answer is, yes, despite everything going on all the time, yes it does seem “that great”. Romania, to me, is a little like my cats. Sometimes those furry devils drive me absolutely nuts and make me want to beat them until I break my hand when they’re running around making noise and destroying my stuff. But then a moment later they are the cutest little monkeys you ever did see and they do something silly and it makes me laugh until my stomach hurts. And even though sometimes they’re under the wrong impression that I am their servile dupe, other times they curl up with me and purr and there just aren’t many things in life sweeter than that.

So yeah, I’m staying a while longer yet.
[...]
Meanwhile everywhere else, from America to England to Germany and Sweden, is heading full speed into a world where confidence is extremely low, where everything is monitored, labeled, posted, warned of and regulated. There are a thousand rules and laws about what needs to be done in this situation and that situation and meanwhile back here in Romania people are swigging homemade wine and patting homeless dogs on the head and it seems to work out fine. New Zealand regulates the number of drinks a bartender can serve an adult per hour while here in Romania you can get drunk at the public pool and go swimming to your heart’s content.
[...]
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Old April 20th, 2012, 05:44 PM   #13331
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Solidarnost
Do you speak Slovenian?
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Old April 20th, 2012, 05:55 PM   #13332
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From a regional TV show . Same music, different lyrics.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 06:16 PM   #13333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Poland was the only communist country to have an influent internal resistance since the early 80s. The Solidarnost movement operated with strikes and paceful demonstrations involving thousands of people. Surely the church had an influence but it wasn't all.
it was definitely not the only one.
my father took part in Croatian spring.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 06:32 PM   #13334
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso

Do you speak Slovenian?
No, Wtf?
Well, Polish isn't easy to spell, so I wrong the last letter. Does it mean something in Slovenian?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 06:44 PM   #13335
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Originally Posted by Bobek_Azbest View Post
Pyongyang - Nampo highway only has a single carriageway, although a really wide one. (It's "only" 10 lanes, though).
Correct me if I'm wrong, but far as I know, the real purpose North Korean "highways" is to facilitate military movements in the event of war with the South. That's why they're built that wide, even though they carry minuscule traffic volumes.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 08:14 PM   #13336
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Some people deserve to be shot to be hit by a car and then shot



In case you didn't notice, there is a woman that was just hit by a car. 2 gypsyes (a man and a woman) instead of helping her and giving her first aid, they search her pockets and purse to steel what they find there.

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Old April 20th, 2012, 08:19 PM   #13337
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Correct Prof. Farnsworth line should be: "I don't want them to live on this planet anymore".
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Old April 20th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #13338
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I would shoot those bastards

Dacia Limo
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Old April 20th, 2012, 09:05 PM   #13339
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx

I would shoot those bastards

Dacia Limo
Cannot get it. What's wrong in that pic?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old April 20th, 2012, 09:11 PM   #13340
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Cannot get it. What's wrong in that pic?
Have you ever seen such a Dacia Combi limousine?
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