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Old May 24th, 2012, 10:28 AM   #13861
g.spinoza
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I would never buy a chinese car, not for the gold of Fort Knox

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Originally Posted by Bobek_Azbest View Post
I wouldn't agree. The pollution can be moved away from the large concentrations of people and quite effective pollutant filters can be installed on site of the single large source.
That's exactly what I said. You're moving pollution from one spot to another. Filters? You'll have to dispose of them in the end. And then again, it's just moving the problem, not solving. Pollution is pollution, and the only way to remove it is by not producing it.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 10:29 AM   #13862
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People want cheaper cars !!
So why they don't buy them? They are available right now. In Sweden I rarely saw small and cheap cars, found commonly in other parts of Europe.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 10:33 AM   #13863
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3 models of Great Wall are produced also in Bulgaria, and they look very well as value for money.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 10:40 AM   #13864
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Electric cars currently have ranges where you usually already would refuel if you drove on petrol. 80 km left means less than 1/8th fuel remaining in most cars. If you think about how much is cost to charge an electric car than can drive 80 km (about € 4 - 5), it's not really cheaper than diesel fuel...
The Finnish car magazine Tekniikan Maailma recently tested the Nissan Leaf model. The range turned to be about 100 kilometres. However, during the winter time, at -15 degrees centigrade, the range was only 59 kilometres.

The price of the vehicle in Finland is astronomic due to the taxation.

According to several tests with various cars, the typical estimate of charging cost is 2 euro per 100 km, being subject to the price of electricity (currently about 0,12 eur per kWh in Finland).

Last edited by MattiG; May 24th, 2012 at 10:53 AM.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 11:08 AM   #13865
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According to several tests with various cars, the typical estimate of charging cost is 2 euro per 100 km, being subject to the price of electricity (currently about 0,12 eur per kWh in Finland).
€ 0,22 per kWh in the Netherlands Even though less than 30% of my electricity bill is actually consumption. They have fees and taxes for everything, like electricity tax, VAT, meter costs, transport costs, network costs, administrative fees, etc.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 12:17 PM   #13866
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
€ 0,22 per kWh in the Netherlands Even though less than 30% of my electricity bill is actually consumption. They have fees and taxes for everything, like electricity tax, VAT, meter costs, transport costs, network costs, administrative fees, etc.
Not so long ago I was interested in installing a heat pump. But it just never pays off in the Netherlads due to the high price of electricity compared to the natural gas .
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Old May 24th, 2012, 12:34 PM   #13867
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
€ 0,22 per kWh in the Netherlands Even though less than 30% of my electricity bill is actually consumption. They have fees and taxes for everything, like electricity tax, VAT, meter costs, transport costs, network costs, administrative fees, etc.
The price here consists of power, transmission and energy tax, each subject to VAT.

My current cost structure at home is about

- power 3.98 eur/month + 5.72 c/kWh
- transmission 2.93 eur/month + 3.13 c/kWh
- electricity tax 2.0947 c/kWh

All VAT inclusive.

My annual consumption of 7000 kWh does not include heating the house and water, as district heating is used for that. In case of electricity-heated homes with much higher consumption, people usually join a more complex pricing scheme with a lower price during the night. Then charging the car during the night would save some 10-20%.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 12:49 PM   #13868
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Not only the financial aspect should count when getting a car that is powered by alternative energy. And by the way electric energy is not mainly produced by fossil ways. it is produced by atom energy and by alternative erngy like wind, water and other things, not mainly by fossil things.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 02:58 PM   #13869
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza
I would never buy a chinese car, not for the gold of Fort Knox
If they will get an official certificate that they meet the same safety and quality standards of European and Japanese cars, they will hava an adequate warranty to cover mechanical problems like every other car and the only reason of their cheapness is the cheaper labour in China what's the problem?
I wouldn't buy a Chinese car as soon as it enters in the market but after millions of Europeans will have already tried it for years with no more problem that other cars, why not?
If Chineses will export in Europe models of cars with mechanical faults or poor safety standards they will leave our market after few years because we want quality. If Chineses want to compete with our cars they must offer us enough quality.

Quote:
Originally Posted by radi6404
Not only the financial aspect should count when getting a car that is powered by alternative energy. And by the way electric energy is not mainly produced by fossil ways. it is produced by atom energy and by alternative erngy like wind, water and other things, not mainly by fossil things.
No way you make people doing the most eco-friendly choise if its price is not convenient or that device is less practical compared with the more pollutant (ex. an electric car that must be charged every 100km vs a conventional car that can do 500km with a full tank). The government can subsidize some eco-friendly choises but it would generate economical problems.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 03:12 PM   #13870
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
If they will get an official certificate that they meet the same safety and quality standards of European and Japanese cars, they will hava an adequate warranty to cover mechanical problems like every other car and the only reason of their cheapness is the cheaper labour in China what's the problem?
I wouldn't buy a Chinese car as soon as it enters in the market but after millions of Europeans will have already tried it for years with no more problem that other cars, why not?
If Chineses will export in Europe models of cars with mechanical faults or poor safety standards they will leave our market after few years because we want quality. If Chineses want to compete with our cars they must offer us enough quality.
Or enough bribes to the authorities.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 03:31 PM   #13871
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza

Or enough bribes to the authorities.
For few years. Then people will realize that those products are defective and stop buy them, pushing those brands out of the market.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 03:37 PM   #13872
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You're too fond of free market. There are a lot of unreliable manifacturers still on the market since decades (Fix It Again, Tony?)
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Old May 24th, 2012, 04:28 PM   #13873
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The problem in determinating the quality of technologically complex goods like cars or computer is that they are made by thoudands of different components that can have thousands of different problems throghout the years. So it's difficult to make statistics about the reliability of differents brands, also because it's difficult to distinguish between technical faults related to the bad production and faults related to the normal aging of the device or to the misuse by its owner.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 04:37 PM   #13874
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Dutch side bike saddle hop:


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Old May 24th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #13875
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That is so standard You can see that everywhere in the Netherlands.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #13876
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Quote:
Originally Posted by morningsinger View Post
Esto no se donde es:


The spanish forumers need help to identify the country (or the pace) where this photo was taken.

Thanks !!
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Old May 24th, 2012, 05:07 PM   #13877
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Reminds me of this (A30 Bad Oeynhausen, Germany)
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Old May 24th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #13878
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you don't see a bycicle in Paris when it rains
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Old May 24th, 2012, 05:15 PM   #13879
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Originally Posted by arriaca View Post

The spanish forumers need help to identify the country (or the pace) where this photo was taken.

Thanks !!
I think we can identify the country by the road furniture and road markings. It appears to be a temperate climate. I also think we can rule out Spain, France, Germany or Italy. Given the sign, it appears to be a country that drives on the left.
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Old May 24th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #13880
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Could it be a fake?
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