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Old May 31st, 2012, 01:15 PM   #13981
Surel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus View Post
A very long wire of a low voltage (0,5-3kV, DC) is very(!) uneconomical. Having a high voltage (10-50kV, AC) power wire right above the motorway would not really be comfortable and could cause accidents.
I agree that DC would be problematic. Personally I dont see that much difference as on the safety side between AC/DC and the voltage. Both are around the same dangerous I would say, once something happens. But what accidents? I guess guys at Siemens thought about the economical side of things quite a long time before they started to work on it.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 02:55 PM   #13982
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I don't see any advantage in loading more weight on trucks (electrical equipment), making the infrastructure way more complicated, and ignoring the advantage of diesel engines at constant speed.
I wonder if the weight gain would actually be that big since you would get rid of the gearbox which isn't exactly small on a big truck.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 03:56 PM   #13983
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I dont know if it is so unpractical. Trolleybusses work fine in 13 Czech cities.
This is not comparable. You compare few trolleybuses with massive amounts of heavy freight trucks.
As I'm working in railway designing, I'm pretty much aware of many problems that are possible here. I don't know details of this Siemens technology shown in above video but if you had a busy motorway (it is obvious that this technology is not to be used on rural empty streets) with just 5 trucks going every minute and using average 200 kW of power it is comparable to total 5 MW of power every 8 km - this is one heavy freight train going uphill every 5 minutes. You would need quite dense network of electric substations with all the adjoining infrastructure (additional 110 kV network).

As there are two pantographs visible on experimental trucks and there is quite massive catenary beside road already now, I assume that there would be massive demands on energy. This means massive investments into energy structure, at least so expensive per km as for railways and probably more.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 04:38 PM   #13984
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No one says that it wont require massive investments. Changing our society from fossile dependent will be extermely costly. Same goes for changing the transportation from fossile fuel powered into electricity powered one.

This technology seems really good solution, because it is applicable to the current infrastructure as it stands, without that many changes. It is thus keeping most of the value of the current infrastructure.

I can imagine further possibilities that this technology would provide. It allows for smooth transition. So far, I did not see better technology that would allow not fossile powered road haulage possible.

I am not a proponent that would shout this is it!! I would like to see some deep analysis of this project. Well, the Siemens already thinks about constructing some pilot in California.

Quote:
Pilot ehighway projects are in the planning stages from the Ports of Los Angeles and Long Beach traveling inland along I-710.
...
The only downside is cost - Siemens estimates the system will cost $5 million to $7 million per mile to build.
That is $ 3.3 mil to $ 4.37 mil per km. That is € 2.6 mil to € 3.5 mil per km.
Lets say € 4 mil euro per km. This seems to me quite reasonable price. The only concern I would have is very long distance coverage, but I guess its doable.

We cannot of course forget the cost on the side of the car manufacturers. In order to get profitable, massive fleet of trucks would be needed. In order to get massive fleet of trucks, you need huge network...

Just for the fun. Converting the whole German network would be € 52 billion. Seems to me like a bargain compared to what we pour into banks funds etc.. which in return are quite reluctant to fund any real investments.
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Old May 31st, 2012, 04:58 PM   #13985
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Originally Posted by Surel View Post

This technology seems really good solution, because it is applicable to the current infrastructure as it stands, without that many changes. It is thus keeping most of the value of the current infrastructure.
Wrong. Most overpasses have too low clearance for adding catenary and the same is true for most of the tunnels, if not all. Rebuilding them would demand enormous cost. And changing lanes is probably impossible to be as simple as now.

And while are we at the banks - banks pour billions of fictious money for saving our economies, this construction demands billions of real money.

it is interesting project, but its complexity is similar to converting conventional railway into maglev one (albeit cost is probably lower per km).
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Old May 31st, 2012, 05:22 PM   #13986
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The thing is, that the technology allows the wires to end before the overpass. Changing of the lanes is also possible. You just switch off from the wires and later switch on.

Banks don't pour anything... but thats for longer discussion on another forum .

Last edited by Surel; May 31st, 2012 at 05:30 PM.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 12:12 AM   #13987
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The thing is, that the technology allows the wires to end before the overpass.
True, although not the best solution. At railways this is normally not used because it can cause many maintenance and operational problems. What about something much more expensive, like tunnels?

Quote:
Changing of the lanes is also possible. You just switch off from the wires and later switch on.
True. But practical? No, because you loose speed in the middle of lane changing and then you have no energy.

And what about cars, which form majority of traffic - and pollution too? You probably agree, that it is not practical to have two (!) 4 m high pantographs on the roof.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 03:44 AM   #13988
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Meanwhile in Miller County (AR)...
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Old June 1st, 2012, 08:51 AM   #13989
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As today in many countries is celebrated the international day of the children, I remembered a song and a video thematically connected to this day and this subforum. When I was young I very much liked it, because I loved to travel and watch from the car/bus/train like that... Now I see it from a different perspective, as my daughter starts to watch through the car windows like that when we travel

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Old June 1st, 2012, 10:03 AM   #13990
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There must be another soluten than this. This wont ever happen, since it even is dangerous when the track needs to change lane or have a hard brake. So there must be some different solution than this ofcourse.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 04:20 PM   #13991
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2,9 earthquake in Slovakia.. end is near.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 04:26 PM   #13992
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Did you feel it?
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my clinched highways
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Old June 1st, 2012, 04:34 PM   #13993
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2.9? That's like a heavy truck passing by.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 05:36 PM   #13994
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chilio View Post
As today in many countries is celebrated the international day of the children, I remembered a song and a video thematically connected to this day and this subforum. When I was young I very much liked it, because I loved to travel and watch from the car/bus/train like that... Now I see it from a different perspective, as my daughter starts to watch through the car windows like that when we travel

i was wondering why there are so many scenes from Switzerland in this video, and now i have found out that Robert Miles is Swiss
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Old June 1st, 2012, 10:47 PM   #13995
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
2.9? That's like a heavy truck passing by.
Maybe even less but sounds good in newspapers, now they just take an advantage of situation. There were some more earthquakes like this from January, even one with 4,3 in March but I can't really remember if it was in news. http://earthquake-report.com/2012/01...rthquake-list/
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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:21 PM   #13996
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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:21 PM   #13997
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Since when Canada drives on the left ?

Anyway, it's Japan.
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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:23 PM   #13998
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This picture is the same age as the internet...
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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:35 PM   #13999
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This picture is the same age as the internet...
And was taken in at least a dozen of different countries
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Old June 1st, 2012, 11:45 PM   #14000
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A video showing a road bridge shifted by 30 cm in Italian quake last week:
http://video.corriere.it/ponte-si-sp...8-fbecd0c99c6b
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