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Old June 20th, 2012, 04:31 PM   #14321
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
Key word: local.

International services are secondary in the order of priorities for transportation subsidies. Governments shouldn't subsidize international passenger public transit.
What's the difference? It's the only link between two EU countries and two Europeans macroregions. If you think it's not important...
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 05:12 PM   #14322
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image hosted on flickr


Today on my trip to Madrid I was about to have a heart attack (on the A-31 near Almansa) when I found out just in the right lane infront of a bmw X5 there was a nissan pathfinder of the Guardia Civil (tráfico)... and you can imagine how fast I was...

Eventually they stopped the BMW, not my peterwagen.
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Old June 20th, 2012, 07:21 PM   #14323
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
What's the difference? It's the only link between two EU countries and two Europeans macroregions. If you think it's not important...
It is important, the infrastructure is there. Now, if there is a market opportunity, private operators can step in. If not, keep the government out of it.

It is like international highway links: Italy has 7 major highway links with its neighbors (Menton, Frejus, Monte Bianco, Simplon, Chiasso, Brennero and Tarvisio). That doens't mean government creates state truck companies to provide cross-border services, or bus lines for that matter.

The rail link is there, and it is kept in working condition by RFI: if someone wants to run trains there, so be it - with private money. If not, so be it as well.

There is no point in spending money to provide international flights, train services, bus lines etc. Just keep the infrastructure (airport, tracks, roads) and private operators will use them
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Old June 20th, 2012, 08:08 PM   #14324
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

It is important, the infrastructure is there. Now, if there is a market opportunity, private operators can step in. If not, keep the government out of it.
What about railways lines that had been closed forever or dismantled? They should have kept them usable according to this reasonment because any private freight or passenger operator could use them with its own money.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 12:26 AM   #14325
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
(...) and we even have these..
Are there aurochses (thank for a google translate - I've never thought how is the żubr in English ) in Slovakia? :O I was almost sure that they stayed only in Poland, since were very close to extinction...

But very nice animals - you can see them in very popular Białowieża National Park (Białowieski Park Narodowy) near Białystok, in the neighbourhood with Belarusian border, in podlaskie voivodeship, and in beautiful castle park in Pszczyna, Silesian voivodeship, just tens of kilometers from Slovakia.
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Kiedy padł ten pierwszy strzał, Kosteczku, to wszystko się zaczęło, zaczęli strzelać ci grenszuce, których chłopcy jeszcze nie zdążyli rozbroić, i zaczęli strzelać ci chłopcy, którzy już mieli jakieś karabiny albo nulachty, i posypało się trochę strzałów. Słyszałeś krzyki:
- Erich dostoł! - i do dziś nie wiesz, czy to krzyczał grenszuc, czy powstaniec.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 01:14 PM   #14326
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Google Maps now has (limited) live traffic information available about Tallinn.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 01:57 PM   #14327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
Google Maps now has (limited) live traffic information available about Tallinn.
Riga also has been added, very nice.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 02:56 PM   #14328
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A few weeks ago Padua's ring road was modified by opening a cloverleaf, connecting two new roads.
As I suspected since many years ago, the design of this interchange is very poor, and it immediately led to A LOT of congestion.

This was the setup before:
http://binged.it/M8zaOU


You don't need to be a road engineer to immediately recognize all the design flaws in what was being built.
We'll just ignore how wrong it is to open a cloverleaf with no side interchange lanes in 2012 and we'll go straight to the main issue: what used to be the main 2x2 continuous flow road now has to work as two separate roads linked by a junction.
But the main traffic flow is still the previous one! The two new roads will always be minor, compared to the ring road.

This is the functional scheme today:


Consider that, at the moment, only the West road has been opened (so congestion is still not at its best).

The two 2-lane way, which you can see working in the sat pictures, are now 1-lane only.
The N>E direction suffers less congestion, since two "sort of" continuous lanes are still available, although one has to mix, merge with and yield to other traffic in the cloverleaf.
I remember only one example of "separated flow" junction, in the Rotterdam area (one of the lanes being dedicated to trucks).
Signage before the separation is something crazy. BTW, the outer lane is way better since it's faster (70 km/h limit) and must never yield.
As you can see, that leaf was built later than the others: this leds to the suspect that it was corrected halfway on the completion...

The E>N direction is terrible: every morning many kms of queues, due to the bottleneck of 2>1>2 lanes on what used to be a freeflow road...
What is more, the E>W lane begins as the left lane, and it is considered by drivers as an exit and not a main road going straight, so the risk of accident is always high, with many people changing lane at the last moment.


Now the damage is done, and there are no easy solutions to this mess. If you bring back the 2 lanes you have to cope with traffic merging by the left side, which is even more dangerous.
I think the better way to turn this sh!t into something decent is this:



Using ramps to switch left and right lanes. And upgrading the East road to 3x2, since it will carry way more traffic.


I remember I saw some examples of those "switching ramps" somewhere in Germany or the Netherlands. Maybe an Autobahn which had exits and merging lanes on the left side and was later corrected.
Do anybody remember any example like that?

PS: a very curious glitch in Bing: if you zoom to the extreme level, in the Padua area, you get the old sat pictures of late 90s... you can see as the whole ring road was evolved in '00 years.
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Last edited by Wilhem275; June 21st, 2012 at 03:01 PM.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 03:18 PM   #14329
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Bing is more up-to-date than GMaps? Where will that expressway lead to the south anyway? It's already a ringroad.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 03:33 PM   #14330
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Bing is more up-to-date than GMaps? Where will that expressway lead to the south anyway? It's already a ringroad.
They're gonna built two short expressways connecting Padoa's ringroad with the towns of Abano and Selvazzano.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 04:10 PM   #14331
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Bing is more up-to-date than GMaps?
Pretty much always, yes.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 04:14 PM   #14332
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Cloverleafs on busy roads are only useful if they have a good design standard. This one is barely 300 x 300m. A standard cloverleaf in the Netherlands is 500 x 500 m at least.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 04:50 PM   #14333
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
Are there aurochses (thank for a google translate - I've never thought how is the żubr in English ) in Slovakia? :O I was almost sure that they stayed only in Poland, since were very close to extinction...

But very nice animals - you can see them in very popular Białowieża National Park (Białowieski Park Narodowy) near Białystok, in the neighbourhood with Belarusian border, in podlaskie voivodeship, and in beautiful castle park in Pszczyna, Silesian voivodeship, just tens of kilometers from Slovakia.
Aurochs? Never heard the word....

They look to me like buffalo, or bison (which as far as I know are two words for the same animal).

EDIT: Wikipedia tells me the aurochs has been extinct since 1627. Maybe they're something else?
But they still look like bison. :-)
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Old June 21st, 2012, 05:00 PM   #14334
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Those are buffalos wisents, or European bisons. Aurochs (or uros) are indeed extinct.
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Old June 21st, 2012, 06:41 PM   #14335
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Bing is more up-to-date than GMaps? Where will that expressway lead to the south anyway? It's already a ringroad.
The North and East branches are in fact the same road (the ring road), a 2x2 city motorway.
The West and South branches are being opened now as 2x1 roads reserved to motor vehicles.
The fact that N-S and W-E directions seem to be the main ones is misleading.

Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Cloverleafs on busy roads are only useful if they have a good design standard. This one is barely 300 x 300m. A standard cloverleaf in the Netherlands is 500 x 500 m at least.
Yep, and any respectable cloverleaf on a fast road should have side lanes for interchange traffic...
You should see some odd solutions applied here to purpousely reduce acceleration space. Something like this:
https://maps.google.ch/?hl=en&ll=45....36.14,,1,12.26

That's all very 1960s'...


But my point is: the cloverleaf can be a good solution for two roads crossing each other with some traffic changing from one to another.
It shouldn't be used when the main road doesn't run straight across it!

I'm pretty sure some cloverleaf with this priority conflict were evolved with a direct connection, in D and NL. Do you remind any?
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 12:48 AM   #14336
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Like this one?
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Highways clinched by me
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 01:22 AM   #14337
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That's the best way to fix a cloverleaf, but it's not exactly the example I was looking for

But I found an example of what I was thinking about, I remembered this since I drove in it one year ago:
https://maps.google.ch/?hl=en&ll=52....01929&t=m&z=16

A little modified (and with way less lanes...), this is what I would apply to my unfortunate case:


I hope the kind citizens of Utrecht will forgive me for brutally disfiguring one of their beautiful interchanges
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I've sold monorails to Brockway, Ogdenville, and North Haverbrooke, and by gum, it put them on the map!
Well, sir, there's nothing on earth like a genuine, bona fide, electrified, six-car monorail!

Marchionne means never having to say you're sorry.

Due to Photobucket f*cking up, most images won't be visibile in my old posts. If you need anything specific, please write me.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 05:24 PM   #14338
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They should have left the Padoa's ring free flowing and connect the two new roads to it with two different trumpet interchanges.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:20 PM   #14339
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The Euro Test experts have tested Motorway Service Areas accross Europe in 2012. The results are:



Uploaded with ImageShack.us


http://www.eurotestmobility.com/euro...no=412&lang=EN

Last edited by geor; June 22nd, 2012 at 06:27 PM.
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Old June 22nd, 2012, 06:26 PM   #14340
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Why did the image change? It was different seconds ago...
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