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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:11 PM   #14701
g.spinoza
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
Does anyone around here have a car running on LPG? How is it? Does it worth it? etc...

I'm thinking about converting my dad's car on LPG...
One of my friends owns a LPG-powered Ford Fiesta. Until last year he spent half of what I spend on my diesel Peugeot 207 to fill up. But its range was half of mine, so it was not worth (although I must say my car has a 70 hp engine while his has a 90 hp engine)...

Now that diesel is going up (and LPG less so) it could be more worth.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:16 PM   #14702
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It isn't such a big problem with the range. I'll just have to stop more often for refueling... but I still think that I could get a 500 km range just on LPG + about the same on petrol.

My car has a 1.4 L engine with 94 hp.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:18 PM   #14703
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A downside of LPG cars is that they are not allowed in many underground or even overground multi-story parking garages.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:19 PM   #14704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
It isn't such a big problem with the range. I'll just have to stop more often for refueling... but I still think that I could get a 500 km range just on LPG + about the same on petrol.
You want to convert yours? I think the petrol tank on a LPG converted car is very tiny, to be used only as emergency backup
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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:20 PM   #14705
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LPG generally has a higher consumption. My dad drives an early 2000's BMW 5-series on LPG, he gets about 6 km/l or 16.7 L / 100 km. Previously LPG often resulted in less power, however this is not really an issue anymore nowadays.

As are many things in a motorist life, driving LPG in the Netherlands is mainly because of taxes. While LPG is about € 1 cheaper than gasoline, the monthly road tax is higher (often more than € 100 per month) than gasoline, but with the gas price being as high as it is, LPG is an option. LPG was less profitable when the difference with gasoline was less, because of the higher road tax (often at least twice the gasoline car tax).

If you want to drive LPG, you must accept that you have to frequent the gas stations more often. My former boss drove LPG but had to refuel every second day, as his range was just over 300 km.

Also, LPG is not as common in all countries. For instance it's uncommon in countries like Austria, Switzerland, Denmark or Norway. However, LPG cars are able to drive both on gasoline and LPG, in fact they always start the engine with gasoline.

Note that you can't convert diesel cars into LPG.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 05:59 PM   #14706
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
A downside of LPG cars is that they are not allowed in many underground or even overground multi-story parking garages.
It can also run on petrol, so it's ok.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
You want to convert yours? I think the petrol tank on a LPG converted car is very tiny, to be used only as emergency backup
I've seen an offer here in Arad and they don't make any changes to the petrol tank, but they add another tank for LPG in the space where the spare wheel is under the trunks carpet.

@Chris: thank you for your ellaborate answer.

I made some calculations and it turns out that in 12 months I would get my money back if I turn the car on LPG.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 06:50 PM   #14707
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Also, LPG is not as common in all countries. For instance it's uncommon in countries like Austria, Switzerland, Denmark or Norway.
Driving LPG in Finland is pretty expensive. The penalty for a passenger car is 330 EUR per day in minimum.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:00 PM   #14708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Driving LPG in Finland is pretty expensive. The penalty for a passenger car is 330 EUR per day in minimum.
Penalty? For driving LPG in Finland? Is it forbidden?
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:08 PM   #14709
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Penalty? For driving LPG in Finland? Is it forbidden?
Yes, except for trucks and buses.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:11 PM   #14710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
Yes, except for trucks and buses.
Safety issues?
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:19 PM   #14711
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Safety issues?
No, taxation.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:29 PM   #14712
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What about foreign LPG cars? Are they exempt?
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Old July 6th, 2012, 07:50 PM   #14713
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
What about foreign LPG cars? Are they exempt?
I hope so, I think that vehicles must be autorized to circulate freely from a country to another because of EU laws.

What about hybrid cars in Finland?
Are there other countries with such crazy laws?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 09:27 PM   #14714
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What are the benefits of LPG?
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Old July 6th, 2012, 09:32 PM   #14715
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
What about foreign LPG cars? Are they exempt?
No they are not. The cash flow protection tax (officially called "fuel payment") is applicable to foreign cars, too. Better to pay at the border customs office in order to avoid surcharges.

The legislation was originally created to prevent people from using heating oil instead of diesel oil by making the penalties absurd. Currently, it is the instrument to introduce a price tag for using other fuels than benzin, diesel oil and CNG.

(This law applies to vehicles having a combustion engine. 100% electric cars etc are subject to other legislation.)
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Old July 6th, 2012, 09:33 PM   #14716
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
What about hybrid cars in Finland?
Subject to the normal vehicles taxes.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 09:36 PM   #14717
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post

Note that you can't convert diesel cars into LPG.
You can. Polish 'Elpigaz' is known for such conversions.

I have had or used several LPG converted cars. Apart from mentioned downsides and upsides there is one disadvantage of used cars converted to LPG. They are more prone to failures if not serviced properly, I mean, the LPG system needs additional servicing. LPG powered engine would also benefit with specially tailored oil and spark plugs.

There is one interesting benefit of using LPG car, in particular for those living in London, it is an opportunity to drive within congestion charge zone not paying a penny.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 10:31 PM   #14718
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG

Subject to the normal vehicles taxes.
So are there LPG stations in Finland to serve hybrid cars?

How can they enforce the ban of foreign LPG-only cars since there aren't anymore border checks with Sweden and Norway?

Is acceptable within EU laws a restriction towards the circulation of a class of vehicles from other EU members?
I know there is a sort of agreement (Geneva or Vienna convention, I'm not sure) that states that international road traffic must be allowed regardless local laws.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; July 6th, 2012 at 10:39 PM.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:07 PM   #14719
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Can Finland do this? There must an EU directive, protecting EU citizens against Finnish harshness....
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:29 PM   #14720
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my next car will be a hybrid, and I will only drive on national roads and vignette-motorways.
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