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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:30 PM   #14721
hofburg
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EU directive should change tunnel tolls between Italy and France. it's against free movement of people and goods.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:35 PM   #14722
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
So are there LPG stations in Finland to serve hybrid cars?
No. The hybrid vehicles sold are benzin-electricity ones.

There is a small network of CNG stations, mainly close to Helsinki area. CNG for passenger cars is not a big business either.

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
How can they enforce the ban of foreign LPG-only cars since there aren't anymore border checks with Sweden and Norway?
Who has said there are no border checks? Sure there are, even if they are invisible, and vehicles are not stopped as a routine.

The whole system is not based on explicit banning but making the violation of the rules extremely expensive and thus not attractive. If a LPG vehicle is caught at a traffic control without proper documents, a 30-100% surcharge to basic fee is payable. In addition, the fee is charged for 20 days if there is no proof of the date of entrance to Finland to show. Thus, in that case 8580 eur is the minimum charge.

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Is acceptable within EU laws a restriction towards the circulation of a class of vehicles from other EU members?
The circulation is not restricted, but it is payable equally to all EU-registered vehicles. No problem.

(Even the basic principle to allow a vehicle from EU country A to enter the EU country B, if meeting the requirements posed by A, does not fully apply: I am not allowed to drive in Germany without my studded winter tires even if they are accepted in Finland, and my friend from Germany is not allowed to enter Finland in December-February without proper winter tires.)

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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I know there is a sort of agreement (Geneva or Vienna convention, I'm not sure) that states that international road traffic must be allowed regardless local laws.
The Vienna convention is about traffic rules and traffic signs, not about freedom to travel. Every member country may post a reservation to the agreement, thus declaring it is not following one or more articles of the agreement. Thus, the Vienna convention does not enforce anything.
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:44 PM   #14723
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So the big question: if I will convert my car to LPG I won't be able to drive it in Finland without paying astronomical taxes?
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:47 PM   #14724
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don't worry. Finland isn't that interesting. and way out of your league
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Old July 6th, 2012, 11:50 PM   #14725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
So the big question: if I will convert my car to LPG I won't be able to drive it in Finland without paying astronomical taxes?
Correct.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:19 AM   #14726
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG

Correct.
Are foreign petrol/LPG hibrid cars allowed in Finland without crazy fees if they drive on petrol without using LPG in Finnish territory?

Can, for EU laws, an EU member ban foreign vehicles with the steering wheel on the wrong side to enter its territory?
Or ban all cars older than 15 years including those beloging to foreign temporary visitors?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:21 AM   #14727
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg
EU directive should change tunnel tolls between Italy and France. it's against free movement of people and goods.
Agree 100%. And they should also introduce a weeky/montly vignette for Switzerland.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #14728
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bogdymol View Post
So the big question: if I will convert my car to LPG I won't be able to drive it in Finland without paying astronomical taxes?
and without LPG you would definitely go to Finland by car?

btw my parents have exactly the same engine, except little alrger car - Chevrolet Lacetti, also 1.4. i consider that car a lazy cow, especially with A/C turned on. consupmtion is little higher, but in 2008 when the prices started to be mad LPG agregate has amortized itself in only few months. it definitely worths. also, don't go to unofficial mechanics who do it in their garages without bills. at least that is an important issue here in HR. we have never had problems with it. (btw before that my parents had 1991 Mitsubishi Lancer powered by LPG from 1993 when it was science fiction - that car was really good and had good engine, lower performances were almost unnoticed).
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Svaki dan sanjam autobahn...
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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #14729
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG
In addition, the fee is charged for 20 days if there is no proof of the date of entrance to Finland to show. Thus, in that case 8580 eur is the minimum charge.
That's criminal. Punishment absolutely exagerate in confront to the social harm provoked by the violation. With the same level of harshness you should be executed if you drive under influence.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 02:41 AM   #14730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
EU directive should change tunnel tolls between Italy and France. it's against free movement of people and goods.
It's not "free" like in "free of charge"
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Old July 7th, 2012, 03:36 AM   #14731
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I think you know I didn't mean it in that sense.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 09:23 AM   #14732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Are foreign petrol/LPG hibrid cars allowed in Finland without crazy fees if they drive on petrol without using LPG in Finnish territory?
Very good question. What if I drive just on petrol... since the car can do both gas or petrol?

Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
and without LPG you would definitely go to Finland by car?

btw my parents have exactly the same engine, except little alrger car - Chevrolet Lacetti, also 1.4. i consider that car a lazy cow, especially with A/C turned on. consupmtion is little higher, but in 2008 when the prices started to be mad LPG agregate has amortized itself in only few months. it definitely worths. also, don't go to unofficial mechanics who do it in their garages without bills. at least that is an important issue here in HR. we have never had problems with it. (btw before that my parents had 1991 Mitsubishi Lancer powered by LPG from 1993 when it was science fiction - that car was really good and had good engine, lower performances were almost unnoticed).
My parents had an Audi 80 about 10-15 years ago which was converted to LPG and they didn't have any problems with it. If I'll install it I'll go to an official mechanic to do it... but anyway, after that I have to go with the car at for an official technical inspection of the LPG system because they have to note this in the vehicle registration papers.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 12:08 PM   #14733
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Originally Posted by MajKeR_ View Post
Two weeks ago I drove my 50 cc scooter on motorway.
Isn't this illegal? In Bulgaria you're not allowed to drive a moped/scooter on motorways, because it's technical maximum speed is supposed to be 50 km/h or under.

Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Can, for EU laws, an EU member ban foreign vehicles with the steering wheel on the wrong side to enter its territory?
Probably they can not. But then, on the other side, they should be able to stop it and declare it technically not convenient because of the headlights - the shape of the reflectors are inverse and are dazzling the opposite direction.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 02:30 PM   #14734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
EU directive should change tunnel tolls between Italy and France. it's against free movement of people and goods.
No it's not. People are able to decide for themselves if they want to use it or not.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 02:52 PM   #14735
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Yes, let's not invoke higher principles. They're just too pricy.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 03:01 PM   #14736
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Agree 100%. And they should also introduce a weeky/montly vignette for Switzerland.
Switzerland is not a part of the EU, and every country is free to collect taxes, spent on infrastructure as they see fit. And a little over 30€ is reasonable, seeing the lengthy costs that the Swiss have to undertake to keep traffic moving through the Alps.
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Old July 7th, 2012, 03:02 PM   #14737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Switzerland is not a part of the EU, and every country is free to collect taxes, spent on infrastructure as they see fit. And a little over 30€ is reasonable, seeing the lengthy costs that the Swiss have to undertake to keep traffic moving through the Alps.
The ideea was for the Swiss to introduce also the 1-month and 1-week vignette....
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Old July 7th, 2012, 03:03 PM   #14738
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Why?
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Old July 7th, 2012, 03:09 PM   #14739
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Because if I want to visit Switzerland for 5 days in a year I shouldn't buy a one-year vignette. Or if I just want to drive my car from Austria to France via Switzerland...
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Old July 7th, 2012, 03:15 PM   #14740
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If you want to visit Switzerland, you pay a little over 30 euros and with that you can drive in Swiss as long as you like for the rest of the year. You pay more in France on certain stretches, and road construction and maintenance in Switzerland requires high profile engineering. Nobody forces you to drive in Switzerland if you don't want to pay. But it is really not that expensive. In Austria an annual vignette costs 80 euros roughly. And a weekly one 8 euros I think...
Swiss has always done it like that, and we all accepted it, and newcomers from the East will have to accept it as well.
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