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Old September 18th, 2012, 02:35 PM   #15961
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Yes, a failed invasion attempt by the Germans, which gave the Russians the idea to head for Berlin. That did not happen until 1945 though. First the western allies, under command of General Eisenhower had to liberate western Europe, so that Germany could be closed in on both sides. After a failed attempt by General Montgomery to parachute into occupied Holland and enter Germany from there, they finally managed to enter Germany after France, Belgium and eastern Netherlands was liberated, and then it became a cat and mouse game in who would enter Berlin first. This operation has cost a lot of lives to US and UK (with Canada and Belgian, Dutch and French troops under command of Montgomery, Eisenhower and de Gaulle) . Stalin played a roll, which ended up in a new war, and the Iron Curtain was born.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 02:38 PM   #15962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Penn's I may agree on most issues in your post, even on the slavery thing (which I don't, but that's just me), but Britain wasn't alone in its fight against Hitler. The way I see it, Russia had the biggest part in defeating Germany, even bigger than USA's. I'm not saying Hitler could be defeated without the US, but the situation, especially around 1942, wasn't that desperate.
The key to the Allies' victory was around 1941-42, when US was basically absent from the European scene and only busy in the Pacific. In 1943-1944, when US put feet on European soil, Hitler's fate was almost only question of time. D-Day was a bit overrated. It was important, not decisive.

IMHO, for sure.
Britain was on its own until Hitler turned against Russia, wasn't it? And could Russia have defeated Hitler if they had to drive him all the way to the Atlantic?

But it occurs to me that if Britain had sided with the Confederacy, they might have just annexed the North and had us - as a dominion in the Commonwealth - involved at the start.

Not trying to argue here... My basic point is that the outcome of this battle had effects beyond its time and beyond North America. Europe would have been different today in some way (we can speculate about what that "some way" would be) if the Confederacy had won.

Just a response to the it-only-counts-if-it-happens-in-Europe argument. :-P
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Old September 18th, 2012, 02:44 PM   #15963
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Germans lost a quarter of their Eastern front soldiers (more than 1 million deaths for them) during Operation Barbarossa; another million men were lost in the Battle of Stalingrad, which happened a little later.

It was clear, already at that time I believe, that Germans could not sustain this kind of damage; the Allies strengthening their position in the Western front, and eventually the D-Day, were logical consequences of the Eastern front German disaster. But the single turning point, the unforced bad decision that changed all, was the invasion of Russia.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Just a response to the it-only-counts-if-it-happens-in-Europe argument. :-P
This has never been true. What happened in Asia in 11th century was about to change Europe forever. Gengis Khan was possibly the single most serious threat to the Western civilization in history.
From there on, we can never speak of "it-only-counts-if-it-happens-in-Europe". Decadence of Europe in 19th century was already ongoing, we were no more the center of the world...
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Old September 18th, 2012, 04:12 PM   #15964
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Hitler's fate, just like that of Napoleon, 130 years earlier, was in Russia.
However, I think that without the participation of the US, the war in West could have been much worse and much longer. France and the UK simply didn't have the needed financial background, and Stalin was not really interested in liberating Western Europe (and was not strong enough to conquer it).

But, in matter of history, speaking about "what could have happened if..." is always pointless :-)
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Old September 18th, 2012, 04:33 PM   #15965
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Quote:
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But, in matter of history, speaking about "what could have happened if..." is always pointless :-)
If we believe in parallel universes, then maybe it's not
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Old September 18th, 2012, 04:51 PM   #15966
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx

If we believe in parallel universes, then maybe it's not
You mean like in Fringe?
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But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when there´s snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of it´s best definition first. -Radi Click
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Old September 18th, 2012, 04:56 PM   #15967
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Quote:
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You mean like in Fringe?
Exactly!
Btw, great show (from my point of view), it's final season will begin September 28th in the US.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #15968
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cinxxx

Exactly!
Btw, great show (from my point of view), it's final season will begin September 28th in the US.
The Observers are watching all of us.
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But what is Strumatic, we have to define what Strumatic is, a word that refers to the experience of driving/travelling on a superior motorway called Struma motorway or to the ultimative psychedelic road experience only possible on brand new roads and most effective when there´s snow outside so that the shiny crashbarriers shine even more and reflect the snow and the asphalt looks even better. I must think of it´s best definition first. -Radi Click
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Old September 18th, 2012, 06:13 PM   #15969
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Quote:
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I've been to Barcelona, Paris, and Brussels by bus and it wasn't that bad (ok, to Barcelona in one direction I went by plane). But we'll stop in Belgrade and Sofia, so it won't be just transit. By train you'd need 30 hours.
my longest bus rides - twice in Barcelona by bus (tour - retour), twice in Ancona (tour - retour). i hate traveling by bus.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 06:25 PM   #15970
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My longest bus rides:
Arad (RO) - Paralia Katerini (GR): 926 km
Arad (RO) - Giulianova (IT): 1552 km
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Old September 18th, 2012, 06:33 PM   #15971
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My longest bus ride. Prague (CZ) - Bergen Op Zoom (NL) (980 km)

Some of my friends had this trip (with school during 'travelweek')
Bergen Op Zoom (NL) - Vilanova i la Geltrú (ES) (1493 km)
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Old September 18th, 2012, 07:43 PM   #15972
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I had a bus vacation once, when I was 16 and wanted to party in Spain. About 22 bloody hours to cover 1400 km. Never again.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 07:56 PM   #15973
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My record bus ride was 18 hrs-1200 km (Jesi - Prague) when I was 18.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 08:21 PM   #15974
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I've killed 4 mosquitoes in the last hour.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 08:22 PM   #15975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Who can understand a sign like this in two seconds? I couldn't even comprehend it, driving at 50 km/h, the sign is also located in an S-curve.

image hosted on flickr

verkeersbord by Chriszwolle, on Flickr



OK, I take your bet and put one higher!!!


Can anyone tell the rest of forum what does the signal on the centre of the image want to say?

https://maps.google.es/?ll=41.636523...271.22,,0,2.14

I let you guess... I will write the correct answer and everybody will say: THEY ARE STUPID!!!!!


This avenue have changed too much because rigth now the tramway crosses in the centre of the avenue, and the rest is a 2x2 avenue, but this signal keeps there.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #15976
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No vehicles higher than 3 meters, right?
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Old September 18th, 2012, 08:24 PM   #15977
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Looks like "3m vertical clearance".
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Old September 18th, 2012, 08:37 PM   #15978
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My long bus rides:
Timisoara-Karlsruhe with my parents, in 1992, that time through Cehoslovakia, to avoid Visa for Austria. It took a long time, with long stay at the Hungarian border and I think at other borders too.

Timisoara-Saarbrücken and back in 2000 - http://goo.gl/maps/KbnWR
it took a very long time if I remember correctly around 26 hours or so.

Timisoara-Frankfurt and back in 2008
this took also a long time and on return trip a tire blew up somewhere in Hungary and we lost there some 2-3 hours in a rest space. The good thing, it was summer and even though it was night, temperature was ok.

I would only do such a bus trip again if I would be constraint somehow.
It's terrible...
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Old September 18th, 2012, 09:49 PM   #15979
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My longest bus ride was Glasgow - Sofia via Bucharest (Balkans war was in full flow). I've also done Glasgow - Bucharest on a previous occasion before the Iron Curtain came down.

We left Glasgow at 22:00 on a Saturday evening and arrived in Sofia at 21:00 on the Tuesday evening. Went to the Levski Sofia v Rangers game on the Wednesday evening and returned to Glasgow straight after the match arriving back at 13:00 on the Saturday.
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Old September 18th, 2012, 10:46 PM   #15980
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Mine longest was Budapest - Cala Llevado (1893 km) highs scool class trip
Taksony - Rain am Lech (781 km) Stadtfest, sister city
and a Taksony - Romania (627 km) trip
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