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Old October 7th, 2012, 02:18 AM   #16381
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Old October 7th, 2012, 04:14 AM   #16382
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Critics nicknamed the law the "papers, please" law, because the idea that you can just have to produce proof of identity when you're minding your own business really is that strange to us.
As I said, I've never had to show my ID on the street, so it would be very "strange" here as well. The thing is that it's very easy to carry it with you - I have it in my wallet, which I almost always have with me. Passport or driver's license suffice as well.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 11:39 AM   #16383
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Old October 7th, 2012, 01:01 PM   #16384
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist

I don't agree with this term. It makes illegal immigrants look like people who merely lack a document, such as a tourist that has a visa but lost his passport, or some licensed driver who forgot his/her driver's license at home.

It is a very politically charged term that assume these people (illegal immigrants) belong to the place they live regardless of their (lack of) citizenship/residency status.
In Italy years ago there was a proposal to collect a database of fingerprints of gypsies living in Italy. Off course this proposal was rejected by the Strasbourg court because it was politically uncorrect since gypsies are humans and cannot be treated differently than other humans (even if they are very different in crime statistics).
So, why not apply this rule to everybody? Give a fingerprint when you go to the municipal hall to renew your document isn't a big deal. But it could help the solving of some intricated murder cases.

Nowadays people are obsessed by privacy, so they hate CCTVs and police phone-tapping. But at the same time they complain that they feel unsafe because there is too crime around and police is too weak. Isn't it a bit contraddictory?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; October 7th, 2012 at 01:07 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 01:33 PM   #16385
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
In Italy years ago there was a proposal to collect a database of fingerprints of gypsies living in Italy. Off course this proposal was rejected by the Strasbourg court because it was politically uncorrect since gypsies are humans and cannot be treated differently than other humans (even if they are very different in crime statistics).
So, why not apply this rule to everybody? Give a fingerprint when you go to the municipal hall to renew your document isn't a big deal. But it could help the solving of some intricated murder cases.

Nowadays people are obsessed by privacy, so they hate CCTVs and police phone-tapping. But at the same time they complain that they feel unsafe because there is too crime around and police is too weak. Isn't it a bit contraddictory?
Do you really think that gypsies and clandestines go to the Hall to renew documents? Do you really think that criminals expert of cloning cards and documents need to go to the Hall for documents? Please...is well know who are the parasites and despite the stupid political correct of the Strasborg Court and of some xenophile politician, it was a good idea to record gypsies. Together with something like the Arizona Immigration Law it would works very good
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Old October 7th, 2012, 01:47 PM   #16386
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
Do you really think that gypsies and clandestines go to the Hall to renew documents? Do you really think that criminals expert of cloning cards and documents need to go to the Hall for documents? Please...is well know who are the parasites and despite the stupid political correct of the Strasborg Court and of some xenophile politician, it was a good idea to record gypsies. Together with something like the Arizona Immigration Law it would works very good
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Old October 7th, 2012, 02:29 PM   #16387
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84

Do you really think that gypsies and clandestines go to the Hall to renew documents? Do you really think that criminals expert of cloning cards and documents need to go to the Hall for documents? Please...is well know who are the parasites and despite the stupid political correct of the Strasborg Court and of some xenophile politician, it was a good idea to record gypsies. Together with something like the Arizona Immigration Law it would works very good
Off course, and why not record all citizens? There are many bad guys with fake documents even among natives.

BTW, I really fear that gypsies and illegal immigrants would find a way to avoid to give their prints. If they have no official residence, how to find them to take their prints?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

Last edited by italystf; October 7th, 2012 at 02:35 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #16388
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http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/na-katero-...ovzhodu/293046

According to this article one of the most difficult questions for Italian students of International Relations (at least in Bari) is: Which country borders Italy in the northeast?
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Old October 7th, 2012, 05:52 PM   #16389
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Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss View Post
....The US is home to pretty much all of the leading IT firms, yet your authorities still use printed documents and telephones as your main source of storing and gaining access to information. Isn't it time to move on?
I have lost enough information due to crashed hard drives, including two external hard drives that I bought as backup, that I would never, ever rely entirely on electronic storage for anything that really matters.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:09 PM   #16390
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
http://www.rtvslo.si/svet/na-katero-...ovzhodu/293046

According to this article one of the most difficult questions for Italian students of International Relations (at least in Bari) is: Which country borders Italy in the northeast?
Few years ago some journalists of the Italian TV programme Le Iene interviewed some notorious Italian politicians about history: they didn't know when America was discovered, Italy was reunified, the French revolution or WWII broke out. One even said that Columbus arrived in America around 1800.
It doesn't surprise me at all if many southern Italians cannot locate Slovenia on the map. I've heard that a big share of American college students cannot locate their home state in a blank map of the USA with only state border drawed!
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:12 PM   #16391
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One of our MEPs (Members of the European Parliament) thought Norway was in the EU.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #16392
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso
One of our MEPs (Members of the European Parliament) thought Norway was in the EU.
Still far more acceptable than think America was discovered by Columbus in the XIX century or WWII ended in 1948.
What I notice among common people is considering EU only the pre-2004 part and "Eastern countries" the rest.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #16393
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If it's Tuesday, this must be Belgium.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:22 PM   #16394
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Still far more acceptable than think America was discovered by Columbus in the XIX century or WWII ended in 1948.
What I notice among common people is considering EU only the pre-2004 part and "Eastern countries" the rest.
Try telling a Scandinavian (or a Native American) that Columbus discovered America at all....

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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #16395
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
....
What I notice among common people is considering EU only the pre-2004 part and "Eastern countries" the rest.
Cold War habits perhaps?

Something I've been wondering about: how easily can you move permanently to another EU state? I know Schengen permits (mostly) uncontrolled travel, and that's great, but if, say, an Italian wants to move to England permanently, can he do that? Can he (talking of voter registration) rent a flat in London and show up at the local borough hall or whatever it's called six months later and say, I live here now, I'd like to become a British citizen and vote? Or can you stay in another country as long as you like but you're not considered a citizen...? Just generally, how does it work? Anyone can weigh in, of course.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:27 PM   #16396
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods

Try telling a Scandinavian (or a Native American) that Columbus discovered America at all....

Well, now there are proofs that Vikings reached Greenland around 900 and Newfoundland in 1400 but this wasn't know in Southern Europe in the past centuries so we still think that Columbus was the first.
We also think that Mont Blanc is the highest in Europe because we 'forget' Caucasus or that the Po is the longest Italian river, forgetting where Drava/Drau source is.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:31 PM   #16397
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods

Cold War habits perhaps?

Something I've been wondering about: how easily can you move permanently to another EU state? I know Schengen permits (mostly) uncontrolled travel, and that's great, but if, say, an Italian wants to move to England permanently, can he do that? Can he (talking of voter registration) rent a flat in London and show up at the local borough hall or whatever it's called six months later and say, I live here now, I'd like to become a British citizen and vote? Or can you stay in another country as long as you like but you're not considered a citizen...? Just generally, how does it work? Anyone can weigh in, of course.
UK (like IRL, CY, BG and RO) isn't in Schengen but in EU. However EU citizens can move without trouble between EU countries (even if they aren't in Schengen).
Other countries (CH, N, FL and IS) are in Schengen but not in EU. You can travel freely from and to them but you need a permit to live and work.
Residence and citizenship aren't the same. You get the latter only if you live in a country for a certain number of years.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:36 PM   #16398
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Cold War habits perhaps?

Something I've been wondering about: how easily can you move permanently to another EU state? I know Schengen permits (mostly) uncontrolled travel, and that's great, but if, say, an Italian wants to move to England permanently, can he do that? Can he (talking of voter registration) rent a flat in London and show up at the local borough hall or whatever it's called six months later and say, I live here now, I'd like to become a British citizen and vote? Or can you stay in another country as long as you like but you're not considered a citizen...? Just generally, how does it work? Anyone can weigh in, of course.
Yes, EU citizens are free to move and work in any country within the EU, Switzerland and Norway. Restrictions still apply to Bulgarian and Romanian citizens.
You will need to register and apply for a national Security number or insurance number, although in some countries it gets done automatically when you show up for work, like in Austria for example. In the UK, you do not need to register your address at your local council office, but need to apply for a national insurance number. When you register on an electoral roll, will entitle you to vote for the European Parliament. After 5 years I think, you can apply for a British Passport, but as any EU passport is as good as the other, there is really no need.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:37 PM   #16399
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So the UK was a bad example.
If I understand you right, you can just move to France or Germany and stay permanently, but it'd take some years to become a citizen?

EDIT: this was a response to Italystf. But maybe the UK wasn't a bad example.

To Road_UK's post: Is registering on the electoral roll something you can do right away (in the UK for example), but only permits you to vote in European Parliament and local elections, not British national elections? Or can you vote in British elections right away? When does British citizenship (or the right to vote) come, after those five years?

Someone where I work was born in Bermuda and said once that if he moved to England the week before an election he'd be able to vote.
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; October 7th, 2012 at 07:42 PM.
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Old October 7th, 2012, 07:40 PM   #16400
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Off course, and why not record all citizens? There are many bad guys with fake documents even among natives.

BTW, I really fear that gypsies and illegal immigrants would find a way to avoid to give their prints. If they have no official residence, how to find them to take their prints?
You said by yourself, cause is useless to record all citizens if who has bad intentions can find a way to avoid that.

And a native can't be kicked out, an illegal immigrant yes
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