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Old October 15th, 2012, 10:47 PM   #16481
ChrisZwolle
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traffic safety

Here's the number of traffic fatalities per 1 billion vehicle kilometers in the Netherlands;

car: 2
bicycle: 12
pedestrian: 14
moped: 43
motorcycle: 77

In other words.... a motorcyclist has 38.5 times more chances to get killed in traffic than a car driver. And the Netherlands is in the top 3 safest countries in the world.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:07 AM   #16482
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Google street view car in Romania
...and captured for wrong parking...
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Old October 16th, 2012, 01:13 AM   #16483
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totally offtopic...
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Old October 16th, 2012, 09:11 AM   #16484
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[QUOTE=ChrisZwolle;96413816]
In other words.... a motorcyclist has 38.5 times more chances to get killed in traffic than a car driver. /QUOTE]
An alpinist has manytimes more chances to get killed as motorcyclist if we look passenger*kilometres.

But life is not statistics.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:55 AM   #16485
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Well, actually it is, but anyone is free to take its own risks

I'd like to have a bike, but I'm really scared too.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:33 PM   #16486
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In my country motorcycles and scooters are the default choice for those driving high urban mileages. They are a bliss in my opinion as they use so little space. Without them there would be 24/7 congestion.
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Old October 16th, 2012, 11:55 PM   #16487
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Scooters are the worst polluters of any kind of road traffic. Imagine them all as heavy 40 ton trucks, and you get an idea of the particle emissions.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:12 AM   #16488
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that's for real?
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:25 AM   #16489
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So what's your reg?
03
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:27 AM   #16490
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Scooters are the worst polluters of any kind of road traffic. Imagine them all as heavy 40 ton trucks, and you get an idea of the particle emissions.
They stink like hell, that's for sure.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:29 AM   #16491
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Indeed. I don't like cycling behind one

Well, only with a lot of wind. --> draft
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:30 AM   #16492
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Renault Clio is a good car for how much it costs. Here are some of my trips done by me in my Clio.
you have Thalia.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 01:21 AM   #16493
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Should Britain return to its Pagan Roots?
http://www.4thought.tv/videos/show/andrew-williams
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:38 PM   #16494
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Only 2T-scooters are smelly and polluting. But they don't smell more than a two-stroke-engined car like Trabant or Wartburg.
But there are already more 4-stroke-engined scooters, which don't pollute more than 1/4 of a common car.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:44 PM   #16495
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Scooters are by far the most annoying form of transportation. They are excessively loud, smelly and their drivers are often not the best educated, at least in the Netherlands. I live near a road with many scooters (over 2,000 per day) and I can still smell them 20 seconds after they passed and I can still hear them if they are 400 meters away.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 12:54 PM   #16496
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Not only scooters, but cross-bikes are even worse, and there are a lot of them about in Mayrhofen.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 01:07 PM   #16497
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Quote:
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Only 2T-scooters are smelly and polluting. But they don't smell more than a two-stroke-engined car like Trabant or Wartburg.
Great comparison.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 03:22 PM   #16498
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Closed for trucks. Turning impossible. IT REALLY IS!

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Old October 17th, 2012, 05:53 PM   #16499
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Scooters are by far the most annoying form of transportation. They are excessively loud, smelly and their drivers are often not the best educated, at least in the Netherlands. I live near a road with many scooters (over 2,000 per day) and I can still smell them 20 seconds after they passed and I can still hear them if they are 400 meters away.
I think that I live in police country, but sometimes I forget about it - that's one of those situations. Actually annoying is Dutch (and Belgian, German, as I've heard) exaction of law concerning scooters. In Poland they should get at most 45 km/h, but - to not making them pain in ass for drivers - nobody cares about it and mostly they are able to get over 60. Except making traffic a bit faster and safer, it has one advantage - then you don't have to torture scooter's engine so hard to keep some speed, so your driving is not as loud and stinky.

I have one scooter, a 2004 Gilera Ice 50. It's still registered as moped (so oficially its top is 45 km/h), but I unlocked it and 85 is not a problem. Since then I'm not forced to turn the throttle so hard during normal city traffic and I'm not as loud and stinky. And because of released extra power I'm usually such fast as car drivers. During 10000 km I've done with it I was never stopped by police, nobody cared about unlocking also during two technical inspections.

I think that guys from Italy, Spain and France are the most credible in case of scooters. Not only because of amount of them at their habitat - also because of lack of bigger restrictions concerning them.
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Old October 17th, 2012, 10:43 PM   #16500
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Loudness of scooter is also result of them being usually with two-stroke engine. Modern 4-stroke scooters with engines like 150cc or more are less noisy than most of cars.
Anyway, Chris, what I wanted to say is that no generalization can be made. It is like for example saying that all cars are pain in the ass for ecology, judging by old cars that cannot have even Euro2, and not taking in mind the cars with Euro4 and Euro5 of nowadays...
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