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Old November 1st, 2012, 01:19 PM   #16721
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Quote:
Originally Posted by seem View Post
Somewhere near Prešov, E. Slovakia.
Where is Prešov? I've heard of Prešov.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 01:25 PM   #16722
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Actually, I have just found out its in Humenné.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 03:18 PM   #16723
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Is there a lot of difference berween E and W Slovakia? Is something like N and S Italy? For which historical reasons?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 04:12 PM   #16724
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Google has discovered tunnel to India.......That´s how Roma got to Slovakia

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Old November 1st, 2012, 04:17 PM   #16725
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf
Is there a lot of difference berween E and W Slovakia? Is something like N and S Italy? For which historical reasons?
Lack of infrastructure, heavy industry outsourced, ageing of population, Roma community. Many people from East work in BA or abroad.

Lol you should join this FB page - http://touch.facebook.com/#!/streetv...ser=1605363038
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Old November 1st, 2012, 07:56 PM   #16726
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Is there a lot of difference berween E and W Slovakia? Is something like N and S Italy?
Yes, there is. And in Hungary as well. However here there's only a quite small area which is really as if you were in Central Asia, but Eastern Hungary is significantly more poor and less developed then the Western part of the country. Salaries in Győr are 50-100% higher than in Békéscsaba for example. Health statistics, mortality rate, etc. are much better in W than in E.
Strange but even inside Budapest you can find such differences: Buda (West of Danube) is wealthier, healthier, etc. than Pest (East of Danube), real estate is significantly cheaper in Pest than in Buda.

Quote:
For which historical reasons?
The closer you are to Germany, the more developed you are.
And, just as Seem wrote before me, in E Slovakia and NE Hungary the great amount of Roma people is the most important factor. In NE Hungary 60-70% of children are gipsies. Some weeks ago driving in Eastern Slovakia (Kosice - Michalovce) all people in the roads were gipsies, we could hardly see any white skinned people.
And, not too long time ago, but in 2012 we can say it's historical: both E SK and NE H had a significant steel industry before 1990. Actually in that region a majority of people worked directly or indirectly for steel industry. And this industry collapsed, lots of people lost their job. No one took new industry, new jobs to that region. Too far from Austria, too much undereducated people.
That region has lost all chances in the recent two decades. Crime is high, unemployment is over 50% (in some villages over 90%), people living there have not worked for 20 years, which means they forgot what 'work' means. Many, many children grew up so that they have never seen their parents going to workplace. Lots of villages and small towns without a doctor, for they have no money for the doctor's salary.
You may be rich and may have the idea of building a new factory there and employ 100 people, but you won't find 100 that is able to get up early, and come to work every morning, being sober, and not stealing the goods in the first day, and the machines, too, in the second one.

It's a very, very sad story...
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Old November 1st, 2012, 07:56 PM   #16727
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Scampia was the last suburb of Naples to get street view because Google car drivers were treated by criminal gangs and forced to stay away from their territory. They had to enter with police escort.
Looking at street pics Scampia may look less gritty than that Slovak gipsy getto but pics don't show social problems. A place with very high crime level, where people cannot wander around safely and crime syndacates have a strong influence on people's life is always a terrible place to live.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 08:05 PM   #16728
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Old November 1st, 2012, 08:07 PM   #16729
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Just about any region had an economic downturn when the heavy industry diminished. Places like Wallonia, Northern France and other ex-industrial cities around Europe had the same problems.

Trying to keep a dying industry alive usually doesn't work. They key is to replace it with new jobs in other fields. For instance when the mines in Limburg, NL closed, they tried to cushen the blow with new chemical and auto industry and government office relocations. Although unemployment is still higher today (after 50 years) it's not as bad as Wallonia where some cities have over 20% unemployment.

Unemployment figures should also be considered with care. Many figures include only people actively looking for a job, and not people who gave up looking for a job, which may actually be a lot more people than the officially unemployed population. Underemployment is also an issue there.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 08:16 PM   #16730
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus
Yes, there is. And in Hungary as well. However here there's only a quite small area which is really as if you were in Central Asia, but Eastern Hungary is significantly more poor and less developed then the Western part of the country. Salaries in Győr are 50-100% higher than in Békéscsaba for example. Health statistics, mortality rate, etc. are much better in W than in E.
Strange but even inside Budapest you can find such differences: Buda (West of Danube) is wealthier, healthier, etc. than Pest (East of Danube), real estate is significantly cheaper in Pest than in Buda.

The closer you are to Germany, the more developed you are.
And, just as Seem wrote before me, in E Slovakia and NE Hungary the great amount of Roma people is the most important factor. In NE Hungary 60-70% of children are gipsies. Some weeks ago driving in Eastern Slovakia (Kosice - Michalovce) all people in the roads were gipsies, we could hardly see any white skinned people.
And, not too long time ago, but in 2012 we can say it's historical: both E SK and NE H had a significant steel industry before 1990. Actually in that region a majority of people worked directly or indirectly for steel industry. And this industry collapsed, lots of people lost their job. No one took new industry, new jobs to that region. Too far from Austria, too much undereducated people.
That region has lost all chances in the recent two decades. Crime is high, unemployment is over 50% (in some villages over 90%), people living there have not worked for 20 years, which means they forgot what 'work' means. Many, many children grew up so that they have never seen their parents going to workplace. Lots of villages and small towns without a doctor, for they have no money for the doctor's salary.
You may be rich and may have the idea of building a new factory there and employ 100 people, but you won't find 100 that is able to get up early, and come to work every morning, being sober, and not stealing the goods in the first day, and the machines, too, in the second one.

It's a very, very sad story...
What I noticed about Eastern countries is that they have capitals and some other large city that look like modern and developed, while large parts of their territories are still 3rd-world-like. It was the same in Western Europe until 50-60 years ago (and even later in Spain, Portugal and southern Italy).

The problem in E.E. areas with a large percentage of gypsy population is that they refuse to work even if there are job opportunities and thus preventing those areas to became developed.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 08:26 PM   #16731
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Just about any region had an economic downturn when the heavy industry diminished. Places like Wallonia, Northern France and other ex-industrial cities around Europe had the same problems.
Basically you're right, but please note that in Hungary and Slovakia the collapse of heavy industry happened when the whole society changed, when we turned from communism to democracy (and SK had the division of the former Czechoslovakia as well).
In that historical moment the society of these nations had no opportunities to help to those regions, and it made the situtation even worse.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 08:35 PM   #16732
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus
Basically you're right, but please note that in Hungary and Slovakia the collapse of heavy industry happened when the whole society changed, when we turned from communism to democracy (and SK had the division of the former Czechoslovakia as well).
In that historical moment the society of these nations had no opportunities to help to those regions, and it made the situtation even worse.
Why heavy industries collapsed together with communism? Were they too antiquate to be competitive in an open and free market? Were they closed because they didn't meet safety and environmental standards?
However I don't think that standards of life there were better during communism, there was little food, poor houses with no water and power, terrible working condition like in China, India or Pakistan today,...
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:00 PM   #16733
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Why heavy industries collapsed together with communism? Were they too antiquate to be competitive in an open and free market?
Exactly.

Quote:
However I don't think that standards of life there were better during communism, there was little food, poor houses with no water and power, terrible working condition like in China, India or Pakistan today,...
I grew up in communism (I was born in 1974). What you say was true in the 1950's, but not later. In the 80's life standards were quite OK. And unemployment did not exist (OK, lots of people were employed but had nothing to work). Working conditions were significantly better than in current East Asia. Life conditions in NE Hungary were better than now.
No, I don't think communism was better than free market and democracy, but lots of people think so. And, considering their own life, they're right. The communism of the 80's was not a hell for people living here.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:06 PM   #16734
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
What I noticed about Eastern countries is that they have capitals and some other large city that look like modern and developed, while large parts of their territories are still 3rd-world-like. It was the same in Western Europe until 50-60 years ago (and even later in Spain, Portugal and southern Italy).

The problem in E.E. areas with a large percentage of gypsy population is that they refuse to work even if there are job opportunities and thus preventing those areas to became developed.
You are absolutely right. In Slovakia, there are areas with higher social standards, less unemployment, higher salaries etc. like agglomeration Bratislava-Trnava-Nitra. There are almost no gypsies, better infrastructure. But if you go to the south, like Nové Zámky and Komárno, unemployment is higher.

Whole eastern Slovakia has problem with looking for job and low-standard living, expect Košice and Poprad. People from east want to work, but the goverment does nothing to improve situation. They care only of problems in western Slovakia.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:07 PM   #16735
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Attus
(OK, lots of people were employed but had nothing to work).
In which sense? You mean too many people in the public administration like in Greece, or in a smaller scale, also in Italy?
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:09 PM   #16736
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In which sense? You mean too many people in the public administration like in Greece, or in a smaller scale, also in Italy?
Yes, and too many workers in factories, too.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:54 PM   #16737
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG

Estonia is the country of extreme contrasts. About all money and wealth are concentrated in Tallinn, and wandering around there gives a terribly misleading image about the country. There is no need to go more than 25 kilometres from Tallinn to see a completely different world.
So what you're saying, is that Estonia is like Mississippi.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:55 PM   #16738
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Quote:
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Estonia is the country of extreme contrasts. About all money and wealth are concentrated in Tallinn, and wandering around there gives a terribly misleading image about the country. There is no need to go more than 25 kilometres from Tallinn to see a completely different world.
Sure there are huge contrasts but nothing as bad as that street view footage from Slovakia. It's worse than the scene from "Eurotrip"
Then again, we don't have gypsies over here so...

Last edited by Rebasepoiss; November 1st, 2012 at 10:02 PM.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 09:58 PM   #16739
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if we had no austria/bratislava neighboring us, and no balaton in the southwest, western hungary would be equally poor as the east.

gypsies: thats a whole different story. gypsies are poor wherever they live on this planet (or extremely rich, but lets not go into that now). i mean gypsies are also poor in sopron, the city i used to live, which is a quite rich city for hungarian standards. they simply dont have the will to emerge from their misery, no matter where they live. ask the canadians...
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Old November 1st, 2012, 10:56 PM   #16740
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Lol, I love Slovak street view

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