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Old November 1st, 2012, 10:57 PM   #16741
Surel
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It is a question of what a gypsy would call profitting. When we would take civilized life as being prefferable, then the gypsies were profitting the most during the communism which socialized and civilized them with force. The gypsied were hit very hard with the freedom that came in the 90s (again question, what would they actually preffer) which meant also the freedom to not work and live on the social benefits. It is clear that the majority population would preffer if the gypsies would live similarly to the way they were forced to live in the communism, but that does not comply with the freedom rights.

This touches the question of should one have the freedom to live miserably if one wants so?

I mean what alternatives are there for the majority? Either employing an army of caretakers that will serve the gypsy population, or employ and army of policeman that will force the gypsy population to actually change. The second variant is deemed uncivilized in the modern society.

Its very long run problem, if ever solvable. Over the 600+ years the problem remains the same which is striking. The Roma people are originated in India. I once read some crazy theory (which I could not find any support for atm) that they origin is in the caste of untouchables, outcasts from the Indian society, therefore drifting into the world and eventually into Europe. This could explain the deeprooted characteristic divide between the cultures. Its not unsimilar to the separation of the Jews in the european society, however Jews had allways quite high socioeconomical status unlike the gypsies and were at least on the par with the majority population if not above when measured by any means we consider as living standards.

To my knowledge there is only one case of such deep divide of an european originated ethnicity in Europe itself, and those are German settlements in the eastern europe. However, those German settlemets as well as Jews settlements were divided only culturally, but not socioeconomically, which is the case with the gypsies.

Indeed very deep problem in the European society which solution I dont foresee yet.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:19 PM   #16742
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Gypsies are the only ethinc group that cannot turn to civilization. Migrants from poor countries always struggle to get a job, a decent house and a modern lifestyle. Gypsies don't want those stuff even if they receive them like a gift. They like being uncivilized, that is not compatible with living in Europe.

Switzerland in the past decade had a very efficient system to solve the gypsy problem, but it was halted in the 70s because regarded as "barbaric". Gypsy children forced to live in terrible conditions in gypsy camps were taken away from their families and accepted in orphanotrophies.

Today, in all civilized countries of the world, native underage people who are treated by their parents in an unaccaptable way (phisical or moral violence, lack of adequate nutrition, hygiene, health care, education,...) are taken away from their families. So, I don't think it would be barbaric applying those laws also to gypsy children.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:24 PM   #16743
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It's barbaric if children are taken away only because they're gypsies. It's not however barbaric if children are taken away because the parents can't provide for them.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:28 PM   #16744
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss
It's barbaric if children are taken away only because they're gypsies. It's not however barbaric if children are taken away because the parents can't provide for them.
It's exactly my point. Most gypsy parents can't provide for their children.

However it could work only in rich countries with few gypsies like Switzerland. I doubt Romania has enough money to maintain hundred of thousands of children in orphanotrophies that mustn't be lager.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:29 PM   #16745
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@Surel: thats the point. they dont have the necessity for a better life, and therefore its really hard to deal with them. let me put it like this: one will not value a shower when one never washes himself.

but at least now they can go freely across europe so also western europeans see how much of a curse they are to us (well, if they dont send them back home like the french did with romanian roma couple of months ago )
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:31 PM   #16746
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Helsinki had quite a severe gypsy problem so they bought them ferry tickets and sent them to Tallinn which resulted in an abnormally large number of gypsies on our streets. By now most of them have seemingly left, probably because we're not wealthy enough to tolerate the cold weather.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:35 PM   #16747
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss
Helsinki had quite a severe gypsy problem so they bought them ferry tickets and sent them to Tallinn which resulted in an abnormally large number of gypsies on our streets. By now most of them have seemingly left, probably because we're not wealthy enough to tolerate the cold weather.
It's easy to solve Naples garbage problems by throwing their trash in other regions...
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:37 PM   #16748
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It's exactly my point. Most gypsy parents can't provide for their children.

However it could work only in rich countries with few gypsies like Switzerland. I doubt Romania has enough money to maintain hundred of thousands of children in orphanotrophies that mustn't be lager.
and thats another problem: while most european women statistically not even give birth to 2 children, roma women have 5. statistically.

hungarian joke:

-how long does a roma girl stay a virgin?
-until she is stronger than her younger brother, faster than her older brother, and her father is in prison.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:38 PM   #16749
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rebasepoiss
Helsinki had quite a severe gypsy problem so they bought them ferry tickets and sent them to Tallinn which resulted in an abnormally large number of gypsies on our streets. By now most of them have seemingly left, probably because we're not wealthy enough to tolerate the cold weather.
I see them all the time on the Silja Line Stockholm-Helsinki ferry. Complete with the traditional dresses...
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:47 PM   #16750
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A gypsy is driving in the countryside in the middle of nowhere when his old wreck break down.
He walks to the only house in the area and ask to the owner if he can accept he for a night.
The only inhabitant, an old man says: "Well, me too I've been very poor and so I'd like to help you. Yes, you can spend a night here, I will offer you some food and water."
The gypsy replies: "Thank you very much, most people don't trust stranger nowadays."
The old man: "Well, you're alone, you need help, the next house is very far away and I DON'T HAVE ANYTHING VALUABLE AT HOME."
The gypsy: "How far away is the next house?"
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:49 PM   #16751
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-2 gypsies sit in a car. who is driving?
-the policeman.
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Old November 1st, 2012, 11:57 PM   #16752
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post

Today, in all civilized countries of the world, native underage people who are treated by their parents in an unaccaptable way (phisical or moral violence, lack of adequate nutrition, hygiene, health care, education,...) are taken away from their families. So, I don't think it would be barbaric applying those laws also to gypsy children.
The world is upside down. Right today I read this article, about a judge that sentenced 1 year in jail to a security guard, out of service in that moment, that shooted to a bank robber. And being that a bullet hitted him, he has to refund the robber with 10.000 € for the wound. And the robber? Free to go... and it's not the first time. Last summer an owner of a warehouse surprised two gypsies intented to rob in his warehouse. He shooted and wounded them. The judge sentenced that has to refund the gypsies with 120.000 euro for the wounds, money that the man hasn't. Now he is economically ruined, and gypsies are free to rob again somewhere else...


I don't know how is the justice abroad, but in Italy the justice is gypsies/criminals friendly...Last year police confiscated 8 luxury cars, a house and bank accounts (around one million €) to an idle gypsy with a lot of black affairs. The judge gave him back all, saying the there weren't enough motivations to confiscate his things
http://www.gazzettino.it/articolo.ph...34&sez=NORDEST
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:03 AM   #16753
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A Gypsy goes to unemployment office and says: " I want a job."

The official says "Well I've got just the thing for you. Salary is $2000 a week. Full pension benefits and all. Company car and expense account. The work is light and only 20 hours a week. And really you do not have to work that long anyways, you can always skip a few days."

"You are lying" says the gypsy.

Clerk replies: "Well you started it... saying you want a job."
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:03 AM   #16754
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You find Slovak street view amazing? Wait till the Bulgarian one is released...
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:07 AM   #16755
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-what does the little roma kid get for christmas?
-your bike

so anyway, i have also no clue what to do with them. and europe has so much more important problems than dealing with a couple of people who are stuck in the middle age.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:12 AM   #16756
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84

The world is upside down. Right today I read this article, about a judge that sentenced 1 year in jail to a security guard, out of service in that moment, that shooted to a bank robber. And being that a bullet hitted him, he has to refund the robber with 10.000 € for the wound. And the robber? Free to go... and it's not the first time. Last summer an owner of a warehouse surprised two gypsies intented to rob in his warehouse. He shooted and wounded them. The judge sentenced that has to refund the gypsies with 120.000 euro for the wounds, money that the man hasn't. Now he is economically ruined, and gypsies are free to rob again somewhere else...

I don't know how is the justice abroad, but in Italy the justice is gypsies/criminals friendly...Last year police confiscated 8 luxury cars, a house and bank accounts (around one million €) to an idle gypsy with a lot of black affairs. The judge gave him back all, saying the there weren't enough motivations to confiscate his things
http://www.gazzettino.it/articolo.ph...34&sez=NORDEST
The insane fear of being politically uncorrect lead to worse politically uncorrect results (criminals free to roam).
Can someone have the clear mind to prosecute them for WHAT THEY DO and not for WHO THEY ARE?
You hear far-right people who hate immigrants just because they're ethnically different and far-left people forgiving them whatever nasty thing they do. Is too difficult to stay in the middle and judge people for how they behave?
Those gypsy-friendly judges are very politically uncorrect.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:15 AM   #16757
cinxxx
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Greetings from Ljubljana!
Very nice city!
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:16 AM   #16758
italystf
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack_Frost
-what does the little roma kid get for christmas?
-your bike
Never hit gypsy cyclists with your car. The bike may be your!
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:16 AM   #16759
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84 View Post
The world is upside down. Right today I read this article, about a judge that sentenced 1 year in jail to a security guard, out of service in that moment, that shooted to a bank robber. And being that a bullet hitted him, he has to refund the robber with 10.000 € for the wound. And the robber? Free to go... and it's not the first time. Last summer an owner of a warehouse surprised two gypsies intented to rob in his warehouse. He shooted and wounded them. The judge sentenced that has to refund the gypsies with 120.000 euro for the wounds, money that the man hasn't. Now he is economically ruined, and gypsies are free to rob again somewhere else...


I don't know how is the justice abroad, but in Italy the justice is gypsies/criminals friendly...Last year police confiscated 8 luxury cars, a house and bank accounts (around one million €) to an idle gypsy with a lot of black affairs. The judge gave him back all, saying the there weren't enough motivations to confiscate his things
http://www.gazzettino.it/articolo.ph...34&sez=NORDEST
Not a long ago, court in Prešov has fined a school (I don´t know where) just because they splitted white and gypsy pupils into separated classrooms. Gypsy pupils were dangerous, rude and bullied white pupils.
But courts in Slovakia don´t care about it, they think that splitting pupils is racism.
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Old November 2nd, 2012, 12:17 AM   #16760
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Greetings from Ljubljana!
Very nice city!
sorry about the weather
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