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Old November 3rd, 2012, 05:59 AM   #16841
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In other news, my mother's still without power (or landline, or cell service...) Apparently the root of the problem is a substation that flooded; they can't do anything about it until it's dried out.

But my brother (whose phone is working), who lives in the next town, is checking on her several times a day, her neighbors are as well.... She called me this morning while she was out, and happened to be in a place where she could get a signal, and says she's fine.

Apparently it's a real mess. Downed trees everywhere, and (in cases where they're entangled with power lines) the town won't touch them until the power company has dealt with the wires, in case they're live. Mobility's become an issue in much of New Jersey: most gas stations are closed (either because they're out of gas or because they don't have the power for the pumps) and those that are open have hours-long lines.

I was going to go up tomorrow (Saturday) if only for an hour or so (don't want to be in the way) and bring up anything they haven't been able to get in the stores, but Mom says not to.

This is the area: https://maps.google.com/maps?hl=en&l...54846&t=m&z=14
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 06:11 AM   #16842
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The solution for Gypsies is to assimilate them via education into society, and treat those who break the laws without exceptions based on any cultural sensitivity b.s.

Laws should be the same for everyone, without exceptions because of some groups' "different ways of life".
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 07:04 AM   #16843
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist
The solution for Gypsies is to assimilate them via education into society, and treat those who break the laws without exceptions based on any cultural sensitivity b.s.

Laws should be the same for everyone, without exceptions because of some groups' "different ways of life".
+1.

The eastern Europeans here are very defensive, and since nearly all of them are whining about gibsys, but nobody even attempts to come with a practical solution or idea, like Suburbanist does, I say that the shoe is on the wrong foot.

Yes Surel, racism happens in the Netherlands as well. Dumb people are everywhere, but they don't get a say in everyday politics, simply because they are to damn stupid, and there is always an overwhelming amount of moderation coming from the other side. Just like anywhere else. Problems with an unadaptable crowd is not something that applies to eastern Europe only. It's everywhere.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 10:18 AM   #16844
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The solution for Gypsies is to assimilate them via education into society, and treat those who break the laws without exceptions based on any cultural sensitivity b.s.

Laws should be the same for everyone, without exceptions because of some groups' "different ways of life".
yeah, teach them, but watch your back, otherwiese you might get killed:

http://hungarianspectrum.wordpress.c...final-verdict/

i hope one day thousands of educated, happy and rich roma kids will run across the streets of london, paris, amsterdam and new york.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 11:08 AM   #16845
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Originally Posted by cinxxx View Post
Greetings from Pula, Croatia!
Temperature reached 20C today!!!
Where I was yesterday (Cerignola, BT), Temperature was 25...
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 12:07 PM   #16846
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The solution for Gypsies is to assimilate them via education into society, and treat those who break the laws without exceptions based on any cultural sensitivity b.s.

Laws should be the same for everyone, without exceptions because of some groups' "different ways of life".
I am really glad that we can agree on something. The point is that exactly because of those policies applied the EE was criticized in the WE as racists and freedom violating. Its like you guys think that there is no one busy trying to solve the problem in the EE. THose are just phrases and the results that you want to achieve. But tell me how to do it!!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
+1.

The eastern Europeans here are very defensive, and since nearly all of them are whining about gibsys, but nobody even attempts to come with a practical solution or idea, like Suburbanist does, I say that the shoe is on the wrong foot.

Yes Surel, racism happens in the Netherlands as well. Dumb people are everywhere, but they don't get a say in everyday politics, simply because they are to damn stupid, and there is always an overwhelming amount of moderation coming from the other side. Just like anywhere else. Problems with an unadaptable crowd is not something that applies to eastern Europe only. It's everywhere.
So Geertje and his party are what? You were the one who was giving black and white picture as first

and btw would you find a website organized by a czech political party with some 15 % support in the national election that would state: report your local gypsy that you have problem with as racists or not?
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 12:23 PM   #16847
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
The eastern Europeans here are very defensive, and since nearly all of them are whining about gibsys, but nobody even attempts to come with a practical solution or idea, like Suburbanist does, I say that the shoe is on the wrong foot.
And I say you don't understand anything. You have some prejudictions against Eastern European nations and simply give facts no chance to break this prejudiction.
Do you really think we all are so stupid that no one in Central Europe ever had the idea to send gipsy children to school?
No sense for continue this discuss.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 12:28 PM   #16848
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guys, what do you expect from western europe regarding human rights when they are not even able to solve a simple case like this here

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ciaran_...tradition_case
(that guy ran over a 2 and a 5-year-old in hungary 12 years ago, and he is doing just fine in ireland in his big house with his family...)

just yelling, shouting and critizing us, while not knowing shit about us and roma.

this conversation shows exactly the pink bubble some people live in the wealthy countries in the west. thank you, suburbanist, for enlighten us to send roma to school. thank you.

Last edited by JackFrost; November 3rd, 2012 at 12:46 PM.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 12:28 PM   #16849
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Where I was yesterday (Cerignola, BT), Temperature was 25...
AFAIK Cerignola is in FG, not BT.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 01:01 PM   #16850
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Mobility's become an issue in much of New Jersey: most gas stations are closed (either because they're out of gas or because they don't have the power for the pumps) and those that are open have hours-long lines.
http://www.northjersey.com/news/berg....html?page=all
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 01:09 PM   #16851
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
The solution for Gypsies is to assimilate them via education into society, and treat those who break the laws without exceptions based on any cultural sensitivity b.s.

Laws should be the same for everyone, without exceptions because of some groups' "different ways of life".
we do it. and what happens? if you make the separated classes or schools for gypsies only - they weep about isolation, rejection from the society, racism, bla bla bla... if you make mixed classes, they are maltreating and terrifying other pupils inhibiting their development. that happens in the areas with significant Roma majority. if you have 4 or 5 of them in one class, none problems occur. but if ou have half of class Roma children - it is problematic.
again - there are exceptions, but unfortunately, really only exceptions so we can generalize the problem.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 01:40 PM   #16852
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Originally Posted by x-type

we do it. and what happens? if you make the separated classes or schools for gypsies only - they weep about isolation, rejection from the society, racism, bla bla bla... if you make mixed classes, they are maltreating and terrifying other pupils inhibiting their development. that happens in the areas with significant Roma majority. if you have 4 or 5 of them in one class, none problems occur. but if ou have half of class Roma children - it is problematic.
again - there are exceptions, but unfortunately, really only exceptions so we can generalize the problem.
My mother is a teacher at the elementary school. He had 2 or 3 times a gypsy kid in her class. She said that they always went to school with no exercise books, pens, pencils,.. because they expect the school providing for them. They often had dirty clothes and unpleasant smell. Parents complain that thay can't afford school material but they have big cars.
She never had such problems with African, Chinese, regular Eastern European and Latin American kids.

@Penn's Wood: best wishes for your family in Sandy's beated area.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 02:51 PM   #16853
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Apartheid.

(many thanks, you know who you are. Good one)
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:06 PM   #16854
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viviane, is that you?

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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:22 PM   #16855
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Apartheid in the heart of Europe: how Roma children lose out on education
Segregation is rife in schools in eastern Slovakia, says a report by Amnesty

Downstairs at the village school there is one class for "whites", upstairs a separate class for "blacks". The two never mingle, the apartheid is entrenched. The parents or the buses collecting the infants from school are instructed to come at different times to solidify the racial separation.
The scene is not from the American deep south of 40 years ago or from South Africa 20 years ago, but from contemporary Europe, from an EU member state where racism, segregation and discrimination are outlawed but practised systematically nonetheless.

The "blacks" are the Roma children from Europe's biggest and most persecuted minority, the place is eastern Slovakia, home to one of the densest concentrations of Roma or Gypsy communities in Europe. The educational plight of the Roma children in Slovakia and across central Europe is little short of disastrous.

"If I open a Roma class, I will lose all the white children. They are not clean enough, nor do I have space for them," a headteacher told Amnesty International in a report on the persistence of schooling apartheid issued yesterday. "I don't think you would let your child go to a Roma class if you lived here as your child would have everything stolen."

In a landmark ruling this week, the European court of human rights in Strasbourg found the Czech Republic guilty of racism and discrimination against the Roma minority for dumping the children in "special schools" for those with learning difficulties, and segregating classes between Roma and Czechs.

It was the first time an EU member state had been found in breach of the European convention on human rights because of educational discrimination against the Roma. The ruling is being closely watched for its impact across central and south-eastern Europe, where the vast majority of Europe's estimated 8 million Roma live.

But studies from Amnesty International and the philanthropist George Soros's Open Society Institute (OSI) confirm that similar discrimination is rampant in Slovakia. "Segregation happens in two ways," said Amnesty. "Huge numbers of Roma continue to be segregated into Roma-only schools and classes. Many are also inappropriately placed in 'special schools' for children with physical and mental disabilities ... As many as 80% of children placed in special schools in Slovakia are Roma."

The OSI study found that Roma children in Slovakia are 28 times more likely to be put in special schools than non-Roma pupils, and in the Czech Republic 27 times more likely.

Slovakia is reckoned to have a Roma population of around half a million or 10%, most of them settled in ghettoes and shanties in the east where in some regions, according to a Slovak school inspector, all schools are segregated.

The Roma are broadly seen as the big losers from the collapse of communism across central Europe 18 years ago. Parents now have the right to choose which schools their children go to and they exploit that right to shift their children from co-education with Roma. The government in Bratislava is doing little to stop them, according to Amnesty.

"The residents of the village, the whites, wanted their children to move out of this school to the other school," said a headteacher. "They went through the municipality and regional offices up to the ministry. Everybody agreed and the white children were moved."

At a primary school near Trebisov in eastern Slovakia two years ago, Roma parents protested about segregation. The school refused to integrate the pupils and the parents appealed. Last year the education ministry ordered the school to yield. "The school inspectorate ordered the school to refrain from placing the children in classes according to their skin colour or ethnicity." The school continues to segregate the children, Amnesty found.

In addition, the Roma are penalised by a lack of preschool places, the lack of special teachers and language difficulties. The Council of Europe's human rights commissioner reported last year that 80% of pupils in "special schools" in parts of Slovakia were Roma, while only 3% of Roma children made it to secondary education.

"Children here are mentally retarded," the headteacher of a "special school", almost all of whose pupils are Roma, told Amnesty. "There is a tendency to integrate Roma children in primary schools, but pupils with mental and social retardation stay the same."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007...lsworldwide.eu
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:41 PM   #16856
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How to end 'Apartheid' in Dutch Schools?
How to end 'Apartheid' in Dutch Schools? The Dutch cabinet wants this country's primary schools to be more integrated. But the government has backed down from proposals made last year to attempt to force school integration. By rnw political editor John Tyler

This middle road has aroused the ire of parties to the left and to the right. The Socialist Party even talks about a system of apartheid in the Dutch schools, and wants the national government to do more to force integration. On the other hand, the Christian parties are concerned that the pilot projects the government has proposed impinge on the identity of parochial schools.

So how bad is the problem of segregation in Dutch primary education? In Dutch, schools where the majority of pupils have a foreign background are called "black schools". The term can lead to confusion, since it does not explicitly refer to the racial make-up of the schools. "Black schools" include children of Moroccan, Turkish, and Surinamese background, but also children from countries in Eastern Europe and elsewhere. A more accurate term for these schools would be minority schools.

Minority Schools
About 7 percent of all primary schools in the Netherlands are minority schools, and that number is growing. Jasper van Dijk, a member of parliament for the Socialist Party, wants to break what he calls a taboo in the discussion of segregation in schools.

"You cannot deny that when you have this segregation in the education system, you can call that apartheid. Because when even the cities are mixed, the children go to schools separately - that's a matter of apartheid, I cannot call it differently."


http://www.expatica.com/nl/education...ls__11539.html

...

http://usj.sagepub.com/content/35/3/547.abstract

http://www.humanityinaction.org/know...rimary-schools
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:43 PM   #16857
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Yes, in the Netherlands, parents have the freedom to send their children to any school they want.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:47 PM   #16858
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I went to a school where the number of blacks and whites were equal. In a place where integration is working, and where everybody gets along.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:54 PM   #16859
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Yes, in the Netherlands, parents have the freedom to send their children to any school they want.
Since the 90s the same goes in CZ for sure, I think that even during the communism the primary schools were to the choice of the parents but I am not sure about that. Certainly every other grades above. I remember several gypsies from the primarly school. I don't remember much problems besides occasional aggresion. As I heard the primarly school I attended is now considered one of the worst in the city due to... no wonder parents put their kids elswhere.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:54 PM   #16860
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