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Old November 3rd, 2012, 03:59 PM   #16861
Penn's Woods
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
and btw would you find a website organized by a czech political party with some 15 % support in the national election that would state: report your local gypsy that you have problem with as racists or not?

Do they also encourage you to report non-gypsies you have problems with? (Or even better, just say report people you have problems with?) If not, yes, it is absolutely, shamelessly, 100% racist and I'm not going to apologize for saying so. (I'm not going to apologize for breaking my promise to shut up about it either, because I'm not the only one who said I would and hasn't).

But, in fairness, this can happen elsewhere too. There was a story out of southwestern France (Toulouse, Bordeaux... I don't remember) a year or two ago where people were asked by a local official to report "people who look Romanian." I think they were actually trying to catch someone on a crime spree, so they could at least argue that they knew the suspect, um, looked Romanian. But some additional details like the person's height and sex might have been helpful, rather than have people reporting to the police any "Romanian-looking" person from babies to grandmothers....

Which brings us back to the Arizona "papers, please" law we were discussing a few weeks ago and people's fear that the police would stop anyone who looks Hispanic....

Okay, better stop again now.
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Last edited by Penn's Woods; November 3rd, 2012 at 04:03 PM. Reason: rereading, realized I left out the "to report"....
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:00 PM   #16862
seem
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK
I went to a school where the number of blacks and whites were equal. In a place where integration is working, and where everybody gets along.
I am not saying that the current situation and total segregetion is ok, but you certainly dont know what you are talking about. Would you really send your children to school where would be kids from the ghetto like this - http://m.youtube.com/watch?v=UZ7WHKU_UoY#

Just today I read an article about school where Roma children steal, abuse and attack teachers (there was also something about showing them penises). School wanted police at school however council cant afford to pay for that.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:01 PM   #16863
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle
Yes, in the Netherlands, parents have the freedom to send their children to any school they want.
Also here. Few years ago some racist Northern League politicians (similar to Wilders's party in NL) proposed different classes for native Italians and immigrants (all immigrants). That's surely wrong because, apart being inhuman, most immigrants want to integrate there and segregating them would increase inter-racial tensions and violence. Also blacks and whites in USA and South Africa are part of the same nation and want to be integrated. Gypsies are a different story since they refuse themselves to be integrated. If they behave in a different way no discrimination against them would occur in their countries (also because they are originary from RO, H, SK and CZ and not their recently arrived guests). If we punish "white" criminals but not gypsy criminals because it would be racist, we're racists against ourselves.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:02 PM   #16864
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
I went to a school where the number of blacks and whites were equal. In a place where integration is working, and where everybody gets along.
So those were my questions. Should we employ an army of "policeman" that would force everything on the society, decide which you will attend the school with, force the kids to attend against their will or the will of their parents. Foce the other parents to put their kids into the classes with kids that must be forced to attend the school by governmental agency instead of going there voluntarily? Thus making it another communism?

Its very easy to criticize someone because he points out that there is a problem and call him racist. Its not so easy to actually talk about the solution of the problem.

Denying problem won't make it to disappear, in the NL as well as in CZ.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:04 PM   #16865
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Originally Posted by Jack_Frost View Post
this conversation shows exactly the pink bubble some people live in the wealthy countries in the west.
That's the arrogance of certain people that from set down on a comfort chair tries to change the world with nice words and "open mind". But in fact don't know what the hell is going on outside their backyards. Or maybe they think to know everything just cause they go one week on holiday or the company sent them there to work, paying them hotel, food and everything.
This sounds like those politicians when yell "the country must do sacrifices, lend a hand to immigrants..." and after being voted: riduce politician wages? are you crazy...then how I can survive with only 8000€ monthly... immigration problem? which problem...I have body guards, bulletproof car, I don't use public services and in the district where I have my villa there aren't immigrants. I don't see any problem....
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:08 PM   #16866
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Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Do they also encourage you to report non-gypsies you have problems with? (Or even better, just say report people you have problems with?) If not, yes, it is absolutely, shamelessly, 100% racist and I'm not going to apologize for saying so. (I'm not going to apologize for breaking my promise to shut up about it either, because I'm not the only one who said I would and hasn't).

But, in fairness, this can happen elsewhere too. There was a story out of southwestern France (Toulouse, Bordeaux... I don't remember) a year or two ago where people were asked by a local official to report "people who look Romanian." I think they were actually trying to catch someone on a crime spree, so they could at least argue that they knew the suspect, um, looked Romanian. But some additional details like the person's height and sex might have been helpful, rather than have people reporting to the police any "Romanian-looking" person from babies to grandmothers....

Which brings us back to the Arizona "papers, please" law we were discussing a few weeks ago and people's fear that the police would stop anyone who looks Hispanic....

Okay, better stop again now.
Take a look here then:
http://www.meldpuntmiddenenoosteuropeanen.nl/

I believe you can read some Dutch, if not google translate will help. Thats to explain my reply to the Road UK... he certainly got it, though did not answer.

There is nothing like that going on in the Czech republic, nor is anyone daring to talk about something like that.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:10 PM   #16867
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84

That's the arrogance of certain people that from set down on a comfort chair tries to change the world with nice words and "open mind". But in fact don't know what the hell is going on outside their backyards. Or maybe they think to know everything just cause they go one week on holiday or the company sent them there to work, paying them hotel, food and everything.
This sounds like those politicians when yell "the country must do sacrifices, lend a hand to immigrants..." and after being voted: riduce politician wages? are you crazy...then how I can survive with only 8000€ monthly... immigration problem? which problem...I have body guards, bulletproof car, I don't use public services and in the district where I have my villa there aren't immigrants. I don't see any problem....
And they also cut off funds for public education and public health care, since those who held the power have enough money for private clinics and schools for them and their families.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:12 PM   #16868
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That is the good thing about democracy in the Netherlands. A lot of people took him seriously, then he came with this meldpunt nonsense, and has managed to lose a lot of voters.

Everybody gets a say, and everybody can speak their minds.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:12 PM   #16869
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For those who read French:

http://www.lemonde.fr/societe/articl...4390_3224.html
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:14 PM   #16870
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N
Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
So those were my questions. Should we employ an army of "policeman" that would force everything on the society, decide which you will attend the school with, force the kids to attend against their will or the will of their parents. Foce the other parents to put their kids into the classes with kids that must be forced to attend the school by governmental agency instead of going there voluntarily? Thus making it another communism?

Its very easy to criticize someone because he points out that there is a problem and call him racist. Its not so easy to actually talk about the solution of the problem.

Denying problem won't make it to disappear, in the NL as well as in CZ.
Nobody is denying the problem. That's why we TALK about it, not rant about these scum of the earth Roma that has filled God knows how many pages of this thread.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:15 PM   #16871
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Ok, I already got the main idea - So let send all gypsies to the Netherlands - the country where integration does work. So the gypsies will integrate in modern society, and then we can get them back to our racist, apartheidist, etc. EE countries, as being integrated already they wont cause any more trouble.
Unfortunately, I don't know why everytime EE gypsies go to the Netherlands, they get extradited back to their home countries, not integrated. Smells like hypocrisy.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:18 PM   #16872
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Originally Posted by italystf View Post
And they also cut off funds for public education and public health care, since those who held the power have enough money for private clinics and schools for them and their families.
...or when they say "today the young people are choosy when they look for a work" but for own sons they find work in the university where they used to teach or in the companies where they used to work...
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:18 PM   #16873
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Why would they come to the Netherlands in the first place?
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:19 PM   #16874
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Gypsies totally ruin the image of Romania(ns) in the Netherlands. Every time you read about skimming and criminal activity. Many of them are gypsies from Romania. To the average Dutch that means Romanians are mostly criminals who should be kicked out of the EU.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:21 PM   #16875
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Gypsies totally ruin the image of Romania(ns) in the Netherlands. Every time you read about skimming and criminal activity. Many of them are gypsies from Romania. To the average Dutch that means Romanians are mostly criminals who should be kicked out of the EU.
Actually, a lot of these criminals in the UK are ethnic Romanians, not gypsies. Also the ones that cause a steer in Innsbruck are ethnic Romanians. Same with the ones who pose as police officers in Austria, Spain and Italy...
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:21 PM   #16876
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Originally Posted by Road_UK
Let them talk. If convicted they go to prison. Or are fair trials still unknown in eastern Europe?
How's that fair trial fir that Brazilian guy executed in cold blood by UK police going?
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:21 PM   #16877
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Chris, also the image of Bulgaria... Usually far right politics and their followers put Romania and Bulgaria together, and both countries are viewed as such criminal sources. That's a bad case for Schengen-treaty entering chances of Bulgaria, even if it solve it's judicial etc. problems, they wont let it in before Romania solves it's owns.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:21 PM   #16878
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Satyricon84
but for own sons they find work in the university where they used to teach or in the companies where they used to work...
Or the give them an important and well-paid political role, look at Bossi and Di Pietro.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:22 PM   #16879
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Desperate attempt to change subject:

Chris, I believe it's your turn to give us a highway to guess.

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Old November 3rd, 2012, 04:23 PM   #16880
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That is the good thing about democracy in the Netherlands. A lot of people took him seriously, then he came with this meldpunt nonsense, and has managed to lose a lot of voters.

Everybody gets a say, and everybody can speak their minds.
Well I really LOLed over this show, seriously.



But what is so much different about the democracy in the CZ in this sense? As I checked last time PVV was on 10 % in the September elections. Yeah I am defensive when I read your posts that were claiming so many things....
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