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Old December 15th, 2012, 06:21 PM   #17701
Road_UK
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How did that end up in quote?
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Old December 15th, 2012, 06:40 PM   #17702
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youre right, Road Uk, its not our business. and i would never say that americans are barbarians...

i just wonder if I could ever sit in a cinema, anywhere in the US, and dont have to be afraid of someone shooting in my head, just because he had a bad day. and the truth is: you cannot sit in a cinema in the US, not expecting anything wrong. because "it" could happen any time. and that -at least in my oprinion- is unacceptable. i could never live like that.

Verso is right, banning guns is the only solution.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 06:42 PM   #17703
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Sigh.

All right, I'll say this as thoughtfully as possible, hopefully calmly, and hopefully once.

1) Mass shootings are NOT exclusively an American phenomenon. Belgium just observed the first anniverary of the Liège one. Since then we've seen Toulouse....
And then there's Breivik.

The Second Amendment is not in effect in Belgium, France or Norway, as far as I know, but that fact didn't prevent those incidents.

2) Violence is not exclusively an American phenomenon. We are not, over here, having discussions like Germans have enjoyed this week this week about whether to cage opposing groups of soccer fans from each other. (I can't imagine Yankee Stadium needing to corral Red Sox fans in a separate section of the stadium and keep them away from the men's rooms until the game's over. But an article earlier this year in the New York Times discussed such measures being taken in Glasgow for games against Aberdeen.) Jumping on this as an opportunity to tut-tut about how awful Americans are (like a prominent French news anchor last year who asked on the air* whether "the example of American society" was responsible for Liège) is unadulterated bigotry. And profoundly insensitive towards the families of the victims.

3) Crime rates in the U.S. overall and in cities like New York are - generally speaking - at their lowest point in my lifetime of nearly 50 years. The last few years you keep seeing stories like "lowest homicide rate in New York since 1964"; "no homicides in Newark this month"; "no gun deaths in Boston the entirety of last year". Which means something different is responsible for these mass shootings.

4) THAT SAID, we certainly have more than our share of them. Yes, this guy - just like Mohamed Merah or Anders Breivik or Hans van Themsche - had something wrong with him. But we make it too easy for him, through too-easy access to assault weapons, the fast-loading clips that were used in Tucson and so on. Is banning guns outright the solution? No. And it would require opening up the Bill of Rights for revision. Not just repealing the Second Amendment but permitting the house-to-house searches that would be necessary to collect all the guns that are already out there. I'll be damned if I want to start messing with free speech, trial by jury, and all sorts of other concepts that have been basic rights here since long before most of Continental Europe had any concept of what democracy was.

5) I don't know what the answer is. These things can't be completely prevented (or they wouldn't happen in "civilized" Europe). I do know gun control (as opposed to a complete ban) is part of the answer. But we want to get the answer right, not just do something because it makes us feel better; and as far as doing something because it makes some Europeans stop disapproving of us, f--k that. (Those Europeans who disapprove of us will find another reason to anyway.)

6.) All Americans are sick about this (except the occasional psycho, but they can exist outside this country too). The vast majority of Americans, even the vast majority of NRA members, understand some degree of gun control is part of the solution. There is a thoughtful discussion going on here about solutions, even though NRA leadership (and, disgracefully, the White House briefly yesterday) is saying it's "not the time." Non-Americans are welcome to participate in that thoughtful discussion. As opposed to rubbing their hands at the opportunity to denounce us as monsters.

-----

FOR THE RECORD, when I said I was afraid of the discussion being politicized, I was thinking as much of an argument about gun control among Americans (I'd already been on the Huffington Post doing that...) as I was of a xenophobic discussion about the supposed nature of Americans from our European friends.

-----


*David Pujadas, the day of or the day after Liège. The France2 8 p.m. news can be watched here on TV5 Monde and I was actually watching it that evening. I haven't watched the broadcast since.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 06:48 PM   #17704
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Well not exactly the same. You can force people to switch from left- to right-hand traffic, but apparently you can't force them to switch from seven-ninety to ninety-seven.

By the way, I read somewhere that the German number spelling rule causes a higher number of dyslexia-like illnesses.
I read very recently (perhaps within the last week) - can't remember where - that dyslexia is higher in English- and French- speaking countries (among others) than in, say, Spanish-speaking countries, because of our bizarre spelling.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 06:57 PM   #17705
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I read very recently (perhaps within the last week) - can't remember where - that dyslexia is higher in English- and French- speaking countries (among others) than in, say, Spanish-speaking countries, because of our bizarre spelling.
I guess this is very likely. French and English spelling and writing are decoupled, while in Italian and in Spanish every character is always read the same way (apart from localized and easy-to-spot exceptions).

When I was a kid I had a book about dinosaurs, in English, and I was surprised to see, near every species's name, its phonetic spelling: Stegosaurus (Steg-owe-sore-uss). Italian and Spanish don't need that.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 07:02 PM   #17706
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Say what you want. Expect me to respond when I read stuff that isn't any of your business in the first place. Or haven't you hear of freedom of speech?
Freedom of speech doesn't include attack on freedom of speech, otherwise I can tell you the same and we start spinning in circles. But I usually have to explain this in DLM, not here..

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Speaking of isolated incidents... That what happened in what your current homeland was a part of these days... Was that an isolated incident as well?
What are you talking about?
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Old December 15th, 2012, 07:07 PM   #17707
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I guess this is very likely. French and English spelling and writing are decoupled, while in Italian and in Spanish every character is always read the same way (apart from localized and easy-to-spot exceptions).

When I was a kid I had a book about dinosaurs, in English, and I was surprised to see, near every species's name, its phonetic spelling: Stegosaurus (Steg-owe-sore-uss). Italian and Spanish don't need that.
The main issue I find with Italian is somewhat-unpredictable word stress. Spanish (and Portuguese and Catalan...) doesn't even have that problem, thanks to the way they use accents.

Pronunciation is in fact such a prominent feature of English dictionaries that most English-speaking people think "diction" means "correct pronunciation," whereas it actually means "choosing the right words." (Well, if most people think it means "correct pronunciation" I guess that means it does, now.) I'd been studying languages for some time before I noticed that, say, Dutch or Spanish dictionaries don't include phonetic transcriptions in each entry.)
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Old December 15th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #17708
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
The main issue I find with Italian is somewhat-unpredictable word stress.
I see. Most of the times Italian words are stressed on the second-to-last syllable, but there are several exceptions. This is somewhat localized too: names of towns around Brescia are often stressed on the third-to-last syllable, and I always get confused

Quote:
Pronunciation is in fact such a prominent feature of English dictionaries that most English-speaking people think "diction" means "correct pronunciation," whereas it actually means "choosing the right words." (Well, if most people think it means "correct pronunciation" I guess that means it does, now.) I'd been studying languages for some time before I noticed that, say, Dutch or Spanish dictionaries don't include phonetic transcriptions in each entry.)
Curious: "dizione" in Italian means "correct pronounciation"...
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Old December 15th, 2012, 07:26 PM   #17709
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Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
I see. Most of the times Italian words are stressed on the second-to-last syllable, but there are several exceptions. This is somewhat localized too: names of towns around Brescia are often stressed on the third-to-last syllable, and I always get confused
I can never remember whether it's "trattória" or "trattoría." I've noticed some Italian maps put accents on place names that you wouldn't use if you were writing them in a normal text.

Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza View Post
Curious: "dizione" in Italian means "correct pronounciation"...
Hmm. I'm not doubting you, but why do you call a "dizionario" a "dizionario" in a language where correct pronuncation's not an issue?

Check this out: http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/diction
One print source I just looked at says the "diction doesn't mean pronunciation" argument is a purist one that was lost a century ago. Ah, well....
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Old December 15th, 2012, 07:30 PM   #17710
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
I can never remember whether it's "trattória" or "trattoría." I've noticed some Italian maps put accents on place names that you wouldn't use if you were writing them in a normal text.
It's trattorìa. Like pizzerìa, salumerìa, drogherìa, all shops ending in -ria get stressed on the last "i".

Quote:
Hmm. I'm not doubting you, but why do you call a "dizionario" a "dizionario" in a language where correct pronuncation's not an issue?
The main issue here is the "aperture" of vowels, which is something very much linked to dialects. "Me", in Italian has a closed "e", but in many Southern and Northern dialects it is pronounced open. It is not a very important issue, everyone can understand you, but if you want to speak "correct" Italian this is something you can look up on a "dizionario"... a book that's increasingly been called "vocabolario", though.
A dizionario can tell you the stress of a word, which as you said in Italian can sometimes be tricky (even though I'd say 95% of the words, to a native, are obvious).

Last edited by g.spinoza; December 15th, 2012 at 07:37 PM.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 02:24 AM   #17711
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UberLOL for Google Translate

This text:
"Nach Mauerbau und der Schließung der Hamburger Bahn nach einem Grenzdurchbruch Dezember 1961 nutzten auch die Züge Berlin–Hamburg den Abschnitt zwischen Wustermark und Nauen, die sogenannte Bredower Kurve. Für den Güterverkehr blieb die Strecke als Ergänzungsstrecke, vor allem zum nahegelegenen Rangierbahnhof Seddin, wichtig. Gelegentlich wurden auch Transitzüge nach Berlin über diese Strecke umgeleitet. Der Abschnitt Nauen–Oranienburg verlor dagegen an Bedeutung. Bereits 1967 ist der Personenverkehr eingestellt worden, auch der Güterverkehr verlief zum größten Teil über den schnelleren und leistungsfähigeren Außenring."

was translated into this:

"After construction of the wall and the closure of the Hamburger train after a border breach in December 1961 also took the train from Berlin to Hamburg and the section between Wustermark Nauen, called Bredower curve. For freight transport, the route remained as a supplementary route, especially to the nearby rail yard Seddin important. Occasionally Transit trains to London were diverted via this route. The section Nauen-Oranienburg lost in importance. Back in 1967, the passenger has been set, and the freight was mostly about the faster and more powerful outer ring."


It is true that a good translation must include some variations to better adapt to the reader's cultural background, but translating the capital city's name seems a little too overengineered
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Old December 16th, 2012, 05:23 AM   #17712
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
30 km/h makes sense in areas that are actually designed as residential areas, with narrow streets, streetside parking, little or no sidewalks, no through traffic. 30 km/h throughout an urban area, even on detached main roads and multilane urban arterials is beyond ridiculous.
Definitely agreed, I was just about to say the same thing. I really wish they'd drop the speed limit in Sydney's CBD to 30 km/h (currently 50 km/h), due to the number of intersections in close proximity, lane merges, bus stops and pedestrian activity; but that proposal to make it 30 km/h in all residential areas makes no sense.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 08:55 AM   #17713
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Greetings from Vienna
The tradition says that a H&A forum user either proposes his gf there (me), or he will have a baby 9 months after (Chilio).
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Old December 16th, 2012, 03:29 PM   #17714
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilhem275 View Post
UberLOL for Google Translate

This text:
"Nach Mauerbau und der Schließung der Hamburger Bahn nach einem Grenzdurchbruch Dezember 1961 nutzten auch die Züge Berlin–Hamburg den Abschnitt zwischen Wustermark und Nauen, die sogenannte Bredower Kurve. Für den Güterverkehr blieb die Strecke als Ergänzungsstrecke, vor allem zum nahegelegenen Rangierbahnhof Seddin, wichtig. Gelegentlich wurden auch Transitzüge nach Berlin über diese Strecke umgeleitet. Der Abschnitt Nauen–Oranienburg verlor dagegen an Bedeutung. Bereits 1967 ist der Personenverkehr eingestellt worden, auch der Güterverkehr verlief zum größten Teil über den schnelleren und leistungsfähigeren Außenring."

was translated into this:

"After construction of the wall and the closure of the Hamburger train after a border breach in December 1961 also took the train from Berlin to Hamburg and the section between Wustermark Nauen, called Bredower curve. For freight transport, the route remained as a supplementary route, especially to the nearby rail yard Seddin important. Occasionally Transit trains to London were diverted via this route. The section Nauen-Oranienburg lost in importance. Back in 1967, the passenger has been set, and the freight was mostly about the faster and more powerful outer ring."


It is true that a good translation must include some variations to better adapt to the reader's cultural background, but translating the capital city's name seems a little too overengineered
Another user noticed that if you set the translation Slovenian -> English it changes Nova Goria into New York.
It must be one of the many Google easter eggs, like the famous advices "swim or kayak across the ocean".
http://translate.google.it/#sl/en/nova%20gorica
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Old December 16th, 2012, 04:02 PM   #17715
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9gag pic for the user Radi
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Old December 16th, 2012, 04:03 PM   #17716
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So the city of York in England must be Goria then.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 04:06 PM   #17717
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Meanwhile in Slovakia
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Old December 16th, 2012, 04:17 PM   #17718
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I still remember when Google, with the translator set Spanish => Catalan, used to translate the name of my hometown as Lleida. Besides that, I ROFLMAOZEDONGed at some translations from Chinese into English (Or into Engrish ).
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Old December 16th, 2012, 04:22 PM   #17719
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If Abbey Road was in Italy
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Old December 16th, 2012, 05:34 PM   #17720
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I saw this car today after a long time.
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