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Old January 25th, 2013, 08:52 PM   #18781
Surel
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
This seems to be applying to cigarettes as well. Marlboro sold in western Europe, including UK are made by Philip Morris in Neuchatel, Switzerland, while anything sold in Poland or Czech Republic are produced in those countries.
The problem is really not that about where the product is made. But how is it made.
The products to Eeastern Europe are often plain downgraded on the content. You can read it on the package.

There are also many old "national" prducts that were downgraded as well, after being acquired in the foreign multinationals the likes, Nestle, Krafts food, Unilever.
The retail also often demand such downgraded custom made products. The same retail then sells under same name different custom made products in the west and in the east. The price is the same. E.g. Ahold and Tesco are masters in this.
To be honest, German discount chains like Lidl, or Aldi are not doing that on such a scale.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 09:31 PM   #18782
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Are those low-quality products only less tasteful or also less healty and made with poor hygienic conditions?
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 09:56 PM   #18783
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In Italy there is a sort of market segmentation in many supermarkets. Biggest supermarkets chains (Spar, Coop, Pam,...), along products with famous brands (Barilla pasta, Coca Cola, Parmalat milk, Nutella,...) sell products with their own brand. Those products cost less than branded products but are usually from quite good to very good quality and are produced by the same factories that produces branded products.
Some supermarkets, most notabily Spar, sell a chain of products with even a lower grade than the ones with the supermarket name. They're labelled as "budget products" and cost like 1/2 or 1/3 of normal products. However, aften hearing some "horror stories" about them (like worms in a bar of chocolate), I never purchased them.

Example:
Product with famous brand (good, high price)


Product with the brand of the supermarket (usually good, relatively cheap)


"Budget product" (very cheap but also very low quality)


It's perfectly possible that all those products are made by the same company, even in the same factory.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 10:00 PM   #18784
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S-budget has ok products. not always, but some of them are really good considering the price.
worms in chocolate? come on. do you really think that worm would come to chocolate because of poor hygiene?
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Old January 25th, 2013, 10:12 PM   #18785
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The area where lower-priced brands usually have a remarkably lower quality are processed foods, especially frozen food.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 01:45 AM   #18786
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The segmentation happens in several ways.

1) marketing
not modified product gets different package and different marketing treatment and is sold under different price. This happens across countries, as well as nationally.

2) actuall production
Product is modified and sold under different quality marketed brands. Again this happens both nationally as well as internationally.

THE west versus east problem (This happens mainly across countries, due to the legal issues, but once you state everything on the package, which is otherwise the same, you should be safe also nationally - i.e. selling different weigh, ortherwise same products for different prices in different chains).

What I am talking is something different. It is having product that is marketed under the same name, under the same package, but being modified based on the place where it is sold. The modification can be in size, used resources, modifications etc etc. The goal is increasing the margin on the sold product. The products can be produced in the same or different place, that doesnt play a role, because the know how of their production is the same. It is the need to save on the production costs that drives the modification, not the place of production.

This can happen across retailers, but here could be legal problems. More importadly this happens across countries. It happens on huge scale and with many products in the West and East Europe.

Such products are mostly, less tastefull, less healthy, using less suitable resources/ingredients . The hygienic conditions of production are not a problem.

EDIT: Another qeustion is that also when we just go and compare the same price category products, this time it doesnt have to be the same name, those in the Eastern Europe will mostly be of much worse quality. Especially in the lowest price sector. This might be explained by different producers, but the real reason is the retail sector pushing the quality down to increase its margins.

Last edited by Surel; January 26th, 2013 at 02:05 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 01:59 AM   #18787
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You mean 1985? In 1995 it shouldn't have been problematic any more. I went to Hungary in 1996 and it was no problem (entered from Austria).
No, 1995. It was quite a procedure to go with the bus. Comparing to almost non-stop transfer into Italy (also with the bus) it still felt like crossing iron curtain.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 02:19 AM   #18788
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Well, I went by car. I've never been to Hungary by bus. In 1996 I went to the Czech Republic by bus though and yes, it was quite a lengthy procedure.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:25 AM   #18789
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I went in 1992 by bus from Timisoara, Romania to Karlsruhe, Germany with my parents.
Was just a child then and don't remember that much.
The bus didn't drive through Austria because additional visa was needed, but through Cehoslovakia. I remember we spent much time at HU border, some 2 hours or something and quite some bags were checked.

I was again by bus in 2000, procedures were lighter this time. Still required visa, but this time the Schengen one covered also Austria, and the bus drove through Austria. Before entering HU each passenger "donated" 5 DM in a bag that was passed through the bus for quick and easy passage.

The same donation-procedure happened again in 2008, last time I traveled by bus to Germany, but this time not more visa needed, only an ID (passport or personal id).

Last edited by cinxxx; January 26th, 2013 at 04:06 AM.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:28 AM   #18790
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....
The same procedure happened again in 2008, last time I traveled by bus to Germany.
Complete with the "donation"?
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:04 AM   #18791
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Complete with the "donation"?
Yep! And as I heard, it's still being done
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:08 AM   #18792
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I traveled by bus from Arad, Romania, to Giulianova, Italy (via Wien, Austria) and we didn't have any problems at the border controls (RO/HU + HU/AT). Maybe this happened because 90% of the bus passengers were police officers on vacation

In 2006 I traveled to Greece by bus (via Bulgaria), and we also didn't have any problems at the border. The only problem was a Bulgarian police officer that stopped us and asked for bribe... but the bus driver didn't want to give him any money without a "piece of paper" (receipt). Finally he had to give him 10 € or so to let us go...
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:03 PM   #18793
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it was not actually. Yugoslavia was more like kinda zone tampon. i am almost sure that it was easier for us to go to Italy than to Hungary in 80es.
I would like to remind about elementary logic: Two things may belong to a same category even if they are different. There were differences among the countries behind the iron curtain, but that does not make the iron curtain non-existent.

For example, it was less bureaucratic to enter Czechoslovakia than Poland. Still, both those counties were known to be located behind the iron curtain.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:13 PM   #18794
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Yep! And as I heard, it's still being done
I presume this is a donation for the bus driver, not for border officials.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've wouldn't underestimate ingenuity of those drivers. Balkan is still Balkan.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:48 PM   #18795
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I presume this is a donation for the bus driver, not for border officials.
Maybe I'm wrong, but I've wouldn't underestimate ingenuity of those drivers. Balkan is still Balkan.
The bus company tells you when you buy a ticket, that besides the normal ticket price, there is the 5 euro "donation" for border crossing without luggage checks.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 12:56 PM   #18796
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This is all really sad.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 02:22 PM   #18797
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Fot those reasons EU don't let RO and BG to join Schengen.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 03:10 PM   #18798
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Aha, but what about Hungarians who accept the bribe?

With or without Schengen, crossing the border to Hungary is only a joke for RO cars and buses.
Only trucks have a harder time, and this is a negative thing for EU economy.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:21 PM   #18799
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MattiG View Post
I would like to remind about elementary logic: Two things may belong to a same category even if they are different. There were differences among the countries behind the iron curtain, but that does not make the iron curtain non-existent.

For example, it was less bureaucratic to enter Czechoslovakia than Poland. Still, both those counties were known to be located behind the iron curtain.
Can you show us the Iron Curtain on Yugoslavia's border?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Curtain

Iron Curtain ≠ socialism
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:36 PM   #18800
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It was impossible to travel between Italy and Yugoslavia until around 1960.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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