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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #18801
Road_UK
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Can you show us the Iron Curtain on Yugoslavia's border?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Curtain

Iron Curtain ≠ socialism
Yugoslavia wasn't behind the iron curtain. It pretty much did its own thing in those days. Although Dubrovnik holidays may have been popular among some people, it was still a world away from freedom and peace. And the way Yugoslavia collapsed, and all the things that has happened there in the aftermath... That sort of brutality is not known in pretty much all of Europe since WW2. I'm glad though that Slovenia and its citizens have kept their heads high, and has become a succesfull and relativly wealthy EU member.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:43 PM   #18802
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It was impossible to travel between Italy and Yugoslavia until around 1960.
So long? I didn't know. That's long ago though. Anyway, there's no Iron Curtain around Albania either.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:49 PM   #18803
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Although Dubrovnik holidays may have been popular among some people, it was still a world away from freedom and peace.
What are you talking about? There was peace in SFRY until 1990s when it ceased to exist anyway. Certainly a more peaceful place than Northern Ireland, for example.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:51 PM   #18804
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Freedom before, horrors after. Happy?
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Old January 26th, 2013, 04:56 PM   #18805
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso

So long? I didn't know. That's long ago though. Anyway, there's no Iron Curtain around Albania either.
I read that it was totally closed until 1954 (London Memorandum) but for some years later traffic was heavily restricted (only those who had relatives on the other side, only few times a year, entry and exit through the same border, etc). I cannot find the exact date, though. I don't have elderly relatives who lived near the border back then who might remember.
I'm sure it was possible to cross from Italy into the Free Territory of Trieste and also between the two sectors of the Free Territory of Trieste (maybe you could travel from I to YU via Trieste?)
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:00 PM   #18806
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Originally Posted by Road_UK View Post
Freedom before, horrors after.
That's the case with many countries, including those in the West.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:03 PM   #18807
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
It was impossible to travel between Italy and Yugoslavia until around 1960.
Was it? My father went to a football competition in Belgrade around '63. He even went to play against the university team (or was it the young Red Star team? I can't remember).
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:09 PM   #18808
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Quote:
Originally Posted by g.spinoza

Was it? My father went to a football competition in Belgrade around '63. He even went to play against the university team (or was it the young Red Star team? I can't remember).
Probably it was unti middle-late 50s.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:37 PM   #18809
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
That's the case with many countries, including those in the West.
Not since WW2. And I hope it won't happen again. Anywhere. But with threads from Iran and North Korea, problems in Africa and worldwide terrorism, nothing is certain these days...
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Old January 26th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #18810
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Verso View Post
Can you show us the Iron Curtain on Yugoslavia's border?


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iron_Curtain

Iron Curtain ≠ socialism
picture above shows border line between Nato-Warsaw pakt. doesn't the world iron curtain come from Churchil? he said iron curtain was by Trieste/Trst.
anyway, border in first 10 or 15 years after WWII between I and YU was certainly ironcurtain-ish.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #18811
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg

picture above shows border line between Nato-Warsaw pakt. doesn't the world iron curtain come from Churchil? he said iron curtain was by Trieste/Trst.
anyway, border in first 10 or 15 years after WWII between I and YU was certainly ironcurtain-ish.
Yes. According to him it streched between Stettin and Trieste, including Yugoslavia but excluding the DDR. He added that a lot of European capitals now lays behind it. Those capitals were: Prague, Budapest, Bucharest, Sofia, Warsaw but also Berlin, Belgrade and Vienna (yup, eastern Austria was under Soviet rule until 1955). So, it was a mistake to put Stettin as northern terminus, Lubeck would have been more appropriate.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:04 PM   #18812
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
picture above shows border line between Nato-Warsaw pakt. doesn't the world iron curtain come from Churchil? he said iron curtain was by Trieste/Trst.
Not really. Churchill was talking about Poland.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:22 PM   #18813
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
I'm sure it was possible to cross from Italy into the Free Territory of Trieste and also between the two sectors of the Free Territory of Trieste (maybe you could travel from I to YU via Trieste?)
No idea. What about I to YU via Austria?

Quote:
Originally Posted by hofburg View Post
picture above shows border line between Nato-Warsaw pakt. doesn't the world iron curtain come from Churchil? he said iron curtain was by Trieste/Trst.
No, it's an Iron Curtain map; Austria and Finland weren't/aren't in NATO. Winston Churchill had that speech in 1946 when Yugoslavia was actually behind the Iron Curtain, but that changed just two years later. As italystf already pointed out, Churchill made a mistake anyway. The Iron Curtain didn't start by Stettin/Szczecin, but Lübeck.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:26 PM   #18814
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Face it. Yugoslavia was more an Eastern than Western country.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:43 PM   #18815
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre diablo View Post


Face it. Yugoslavia was more an Eastern than Western country.
I think it's fair to say that Yugoslavia was neither eastern neither western country. Yugoslavia tried to find it's own way, but failed. Although, Yugoslavia was a socialist country.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 06:47 PM   #18816
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pobre diablo View Post


Face it. Yugoslavia was more an Eastern than Western country.
We're talking about the Iron Curtain, not whom Yugoslavia was closer to (which is subjective anyway). It was neither.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:01 PM   #18817
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Even if not member of the Warsaw pact it was more close to the East: it had a socialist economy and it was a single-party state with no free elections.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 07:15 PM   #18818
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Quote:
Originally Posted by italystf View Post
Even if not member of the Warsaw pact it was more close to the East: it had a socialist economy and it was a single-party state with no free elections.
Elections here are a farce anyway; always the same crooks.
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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:38 PM   #18819
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What about travel between Warsaw pact countries and Yugoslavia? Was it easy?

Albania also tries "its own way" and their dictator Enver Hhonxa went psychotic
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Old January 26th, 2013, 08:50 PM   #18820
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Well, that was exciting: just spent the morning in the hospital, thanks to a kidney stone. Hope it passes soon. But morphine's a great invention.

(There - how's that for a subject change?)
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