Hope Street Maghull Developments Please Help

[Portobello Red]

Originally Posted by buggedboy

There is something strangely comforting about all this. Bear with me...

Not that long ago we would never have been in a position to be confident enough in Liverpool's future that we could object to a private developer's plans to invest £100m and create jobs.

The fact that we feel we can say "No...we'd like investemnt but if you do it this way then thanks, but no thanks, were doing fine as we are" is pretty telling and quite encouraging.

I think that the city has been in this position for some time, and that's why I have have been disappointed that the planners are not insisting on a higher quality threshold on the new builds in the city centre and the docks.

Without trying to labour the point too much, the biggest disappointment has been the red / orange brick boxes built on the South Docks and Rope Walks.

Some housing association new builds have a better build quality than the 'Brookside on Sea'. There is very little evidence of anything of any character that future generations will feel proud of.

Plus, we are still losing buildings of character which I thought was a thing of the past.

I am really disappointed when people on this forum start gushing over second rate developments such as the hotels on the the Kings Dock - we could have had better.

[Babaloo]

I can live with second rate. The Maghull proposals for JBH aren't even 4th rate! First rate architecture is really difficult to achieve although that's no excuse for not aiming for it. The southern docks are largely a wasted opportunity but it was always going to be difficult to urbanise a non-urban space. The obsession with red brick was and is a nonsense. The fuck-off grain silo used to rise like an art deco colossus towering over the southern docks (use your imagination) proving that red brick looks better with LOTS OF CONTRAST.

I'm crossing my fingers for Sefton Street (once the car showrooms have been kicked into touch). Let's hope the city can learn from it's mistakes and ensure no more lazy, totally disposable architecture gets through. I guess the best anyone can hope for (given that 'taste' is largely subjective) is that it's kept to a minimum.

[Villiers Terrace]

...to criticism of the poor level of architecture on the Josphine Butler replacement, saying that the Conservation Office and EH messed around so much with the design (insisting on the bricks for instance) that what was going to be a "contemporary, glass building" is now not all we'd like it to be.

On reflection, my response to that is that really, no matter what constraints of materials or forms are placed upon you, it's up to you as a developer whether you wish to:

a) build a great and worthy building within those constraints (look at how well the Bluecoat extension and OPW have been handled)

or

b) use regulations and EH, or whoever, as an excuse to hide behind in not designing a great building conforming to those guidelines.

Snippets:
i.That building would be only the second building in Liverpool to achieve an eco-certificate (I've forgotten what it's called).
ii. Scanlon wants to incorporate a forgotten bust of Josephine Butler, currently lying derelict somewhere in Croxteth Park into the building.
iii. Pillars from the current JBHouse may be incorporated into the design of the new building.
iv. He's open to the idea of the retail element being perhaps affordable to local business rather than "the usual Tesco Xpress" (his words). Likes the idea of Waitrose.
v. Implicitly agrees the building exterior isn't all that.

Listen posters, my advice to you is that if you care enough about this particular issue, calmly and politely pick up the phone to Maghull Group Ltd, maybe talk to the guy in question and register your feelings. Despite the demolition shenanigans (and I'm sort of non the wiser and forcing myself to believe there's been bad judgement rather than bad practice behind it all), Mr Scanlon appears to be a decent enough bloke really (unlike a certain other Scandinavian-sounding locally-based operator) and, well, you never know..it certainly beats armchair-citizenship on an internet board.

[Babaloo]

Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to Mr Scanlon instead of just airing your views on a website dedicated to discussions about urbanity.

It's useful to know that he largely blames EH/LCC conservation deptartment for producing a fourth-rate design and he wants to incorporate a bust of Josephine Butler somewhere in the new buiding, and it will be only the second building in Liverpool to have an eco certificate.

Just demonstrates how much salient information you can get from talking to developers directly.

Did he mention what is going on with the dismantlement of the front facade?

I'll give him a ring and see if he will give me an answer.

[Babaloo]

I have just been trying to call Maghull developments for the last five minutes. The number is:

0151 702 5856

Everyone seems to want a piece of them at the moment because the line is permanently engaged.

@ VT - is it Hanlon or Scanlon you spoke to?

[Villiers Terrace]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

Thank you so much for taking the time to speak to Mr Scanlon instead of just airing your views on a website dedicated to discussions about urbanity.

Thank you 'Babaloo.'

I know you're intelligent enough to realise that, whilst tapping away all year on SSC can be useful in formulating and propagating ideas, gathering information or just dissipating the frustration of empty, wasted, hours of underachievement , tapping, of itself, is not likely to provide a satisfactory (or interesting) end to all that effort, and, as I say, being intelligent enough to realise it, you will forgive me, over this particular issue, for reminding you.

[Babaloo]

Still engaged

I hope someone hasn't forgotten to put the phone back on the hook. People will start to think that they don't want to speak to anyone

Have a look at their portfolio on their website:

http://www.maghull-group.co.uk/

JMU has a lot to answer for IMO.

[Villiers Terrace]

Originally Posted by Babaloo

I have just been trying to call Maghull developments for the last five minutes. The number is:

0151 702 5856

Everyone seems to want a piece of them at the moment because the line is permanently engaged.

@ VT - is it Hanlon or Scanlon you spoke to?

Mike Scanlon bitch.

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by Villiers Terrace

Thank you 'Babaloo.'

I know you're intelligent enough to realise that, whilst tapping away all year on SSC can be useful in formulating and propagating ideas, gathering information or just dissipating the frustration of empty, wasted, hours of underachievement , tapping, of itself, is not likely to provide a satisfactory (or interesting) end to all that effort, and, as I say, being intelligent enough to realise it, you will forgive me, over this particular issue, for reminding you.

I will forgive you for reminding me. Your self-congratulatory smugness, however, remains largely undigested.

In your haste to reply you forgot to tell me whether it was a Mr Hanlon or Scanlon you spoke to.

[Babaloo]

Originally Posted by Villiers Terrace

Mike Scanlon bitch.

It's just that on the Maghull website he's listed as Michael J Hanlon. Probably a typo or something.

[Babaloo]

And they are still engaged.

Maybe it's the Pope on the phone from Rome. I'm beginning to think that it will easier to get a call through to Hillary Clinton than speak to 'Maghull' (Sc)Hanlon today.

[markonasty]

No matter who you speak to they will just fob you off with their usual lies, they are known to be an extremely poor developer to work with in many cases.

Just for example look at the goings on over the last week,

. They open up the JBH site as a car park;

. Their planning permission gets deferred and one of their other properties gets listed;

. Two days later they close the car park and fully scaffold the building;

. They then start to take out all front windows and remove all of the front stone;

. They then try and tell us that they are undertaking specialist restoration work.

What a joke, and for the record all the front stonework has now been removed, they now have domolition signs up and have put up new netting to try and hide the building, in my eyes developers like these need to be kicked out of our city.

[eyeam]

Originally Posted by markonasty

No matter who you speak to they will just fob you off with their usual lies, they are known to be an extremely poor developer to work with in many cases.

Just for example look at the goings on over the last week,

. They open up the JBH site as a car park;

. Their planning permission gets deferred and one of their other properties gets listed;

. Two days later they close the car park and fully scaffold the building;

. They then start to take out all front windows and remove all of the front stone;

. They then try and tell us that they are undertaking specialist restoration work.

What a joke, and for the record all the front stonework has now been removed, they now have domolition signs up and have put up new netting to try and hide the building, in my eyes developers like these need to be kicked out of our city.

Totally agree

I don't need to have a chat with them to know that either. Their actions speak far louder than any words could.

[Babaloo]

From their website:

In partnership with Liverpool John Moores University, the Maghull Group plans to regenerate this portfolio of four individual buildings situated within the historic Hope Street Conservation Area of Liverpool’s City Centre, into a range of mixed-use developments.

2 Blackburne Place

This end terrace property, forming a key site in the Canning Street Conservation Area, comprises the original Grade II listed Georgian extensions forming the elevation to Blackburne Place.

Plans are to convert the building into a mixture of apartments and townhouses with communal gardens.



68 Hope Street

This Grade II listed building comprises two blocks constructed in 1882 c. 1910 and forms part of the Rodney Street Conservation Area.

The 55,000 sq ft former Art College, attended by John Lennon, will be converted into a 48 bed 5 star boutique hotel. Alternative proposals for the building are for a high quality residential refurbishment to provide 19 two and three bedroom apartments.



Hahnemann Building

The imposing, red-brick Hahnemann building from the Victorian era will be converted into a 48 bed 5 star boutique hotel.

Alternative proposals for the building are for a high quality residential refurbishment to provide 19 two and three bedroom apartments.



Josephine Butler House

The yellow-sandstone, 19th century property named after Victorian social reformer, Josephine Butler, will be refurbished as part of a major mixed-use development scheme.

The proposals for the site include basement car parking, retail and leisure use to ground floor, and a mix of luxury residential apartments and grade A office space on the upper floors.

I wonder when

The yellow-sandstone, 19th century property named after Victorian social reformer, Josephine Butler, will be refurbished as part of a major mixed-use development scheme.

turned into a decision to demolish it (this is what it currently looks like with DEMOLITION notices being put up) to make absolutely certain that it couldn't be listed.

[eyeam]

When they realised they could make more money by knocking it down.

They should be blacklisted.

JMU have a lot to answer for as well, selling to such a small time outfit with seemingly no guarantees of the buildings futures.

[tucker_efc]

Originally Posted by eyeam

When they realised they could make more money by knocking it down.

They should be blacklisted.

JMU have a lot to answer for as well, selling to such a small time outfit with seemingly no guarantees of the buildings futures.

nail on the head - jmu took the highest bid regardless of the track record of the developer - can anyone name a decent scheme Maghull has delivered?

no, thought not - 3rd rate business park architecture - falconer chester really need to raise their game - what's proposed is really poor

urban splash was in the frame but JMU was only ever interested in the biggest cheque - maghull shouldn't be let anywhere near those sites

[Awayo]

Falconer Chester's stuff is seldom wonderful.

[Martin S]

Putting netting up and demolition signs is not necessarily an indication that a building is being demolished - just common practice where major works are being carried out to the facade of a building.

[Babaloo]

Indeed but when you actually look at the building, it's clear that demolition is occurring and not refurbishment. This is one of those times when what is says on the notice is accurate

[interpreter]

Have just gone past the JBH, and they are drilling off all the stone cladding!!!