TRANSPORT | Metrolink

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by Rail Ranger

One thing that TfGM/RATP could do would be to advertise the Metrolink timetable (as they did in 2003). Trams generally adhere to this between failures and it would help to prevent the syndrome, common at present, where a tram is just pulling out of the platform as passengers are arriving onto the platform or in the middle of buying a ticket. TfGM provides detailed printed timetables for every bus route in GM (these are also available on the TfGM website). Why not for Metrolink? Not to do so is a self-inflicted own goal. By the way if you look at the Melbourne trams website you will find full timetables for every tram route. Why not do the same for Metrolink Mr Purdy?

He said at the meeting I went to they do not operate to a timetable any more, they operate to headways.

Anyway, do you think that they could actually manage to stick to a timetable?

I personally doubt it.

As such, if you don't have confidence you can stick to a timetable why provide something else to fail at?

My guess, and it is just a guess, neither TfGM nor RATP reckon they can run to a timetable, hence the contract between them probably specifies the first and last tram times, then some sort of measure to ensure that the headways are stuck to, even if they are not to a 'timetable'.

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

The control room.

However, the driver has no idea how long it will take to fix the problem.

So what do you want to happen then above and beyond the existing announcements that we get when that happens

You've lost me totally.

You seem to be blaming the staff for not wanting to provide good customer service yet have no idea about even the most basic ways as to how Metrolink is operated.

You said in a previous post that The Control Room have no idea (within a block) of where a broken down tram is; but given that the driver will immediately ring up, that problem is overcome.

The Control Room then have information to make an announcement along the lines of, "A tram has just broken down at xxxx and we are awaiting details of the effect of this delay". I assume theirfirst job is to tell operations and get a train or people down from Queen's Road. After, say 5-mins, The Control Room can again contact operations for an update. Once the repair team arrive at the location of the breakdown the control room can get real time information from the driver.

I am not blaming staff, I am blaming the indifference of management.

I may not know the details of how the system operates, but I have already suggested a way we may be kept informed, which is more than I have heard from your good self.

Please stop saying I don't know what I'm talking about - I know more than 98% of the people who use the system and get frustrated by it.

You still haven't told me what RATP stands for?

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

He said at the meeting I went to they do not operate to a timetable any more, they operate to headways.

Anyway, do you think that they could actually manage to stick to a timetable?

I personally doubt it.

As such, if you don't have confidence you can stick to a timetable why provide something else to fail at?

My guess, and it is just a guess, neither TfGM nor RATP reckon they can run to a timetable, hence the contract between them probably specifies the first and last tram times, then some sort of measure to ensure that the headways are stuck to, even if they are not to a 'timetable'.

I agree, I doubt a timetable would work, it's a bit like the Tube, trams are too regular. It works ok without one IMHO

[Rail Ranger]

Cats,

As as daily Metrolink user I can confirm that Metrolink does run to a timetable (despite what Philip Purdy says). This morning I caught the 08.11 Altrincham to Piccadilly at Navigation Road and it was bang on time. Also Metrolink staff have posted on here to contradict Mr Purdy because their "dockets" (tram working instructions) have departure times on them.

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by Altfish

You said in a previous post that The Control Room have no idea (within a block) of where a broken down tram is; but given that the driver will immediately ring up, that problem is overcome.

But what does that solve? You still have no information to give the customers.

The Control Room then have information to make an announcement along the lines of, "A tram has just broken down at xxxx and we are awaiting details of the effect of this delay". I assume theirfirst job is to tell operations and get a train or people down from Queen's Road. After, say 5-mins, The Control Room can again contact operations for an update. Once the repair team arrive at the location of the breakdown the control room can get real time information from the driver.

You mean exactly the same as happens today with a slight change in wording?

I am not blaming staff, I am blaming the indifference of management.

The management as staff in my book. You are not giving me any idea what you want different with what is currently available to the management / control room staff.

I may not know the details of how the system operates, but I have already suggested a way we may be kept informed, which is more than I have heard from your good self.

You have basically suggested what happens today with a couple of tiny, irrelevant changes to the wording.

Please stop saying I don't know what I'm talking about - I know more than 98% of the people who use the system and get frustrated by it.

Not saying you don't know what you are talking about. I am sure you know a hell of a lot more than most people who use Metrolink, but they, on the whole, do not care about why the problems are as they are, you seemily are interested.

You still haven't told me what RATP stands for?

Dunno what it stands for, it'll be French as they are the publicly owned Parisian company that runs local public transport in Paris (I think are partly SNCF owned).

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by Rail Ranger

Cats,

As as daily Metrolink user I can confirm that Metrolink does run to a timetable (despite what Philip Purdy says). This morning I caught the 08.11 Altrincham to Piccadilly at Navigation Road and it was bang on time. Also Metrolink staff have posted on here to contradict Mr Purdy because their "dockets" (tram working instructions) have departure times on them.

Ah, they may be able to work to a timetable of sorts when leaving Altrincham, Bury, Piccadilly Station, and other terminuses; but I suspect they soon lose it.

[LNGCats]

I will repeat what happened yesterday.

Tram failed.

Announcement...

'Tram failed, Picc Gardens, Service suspended, sorry, blah blah blah.'

Recovery team reach team, assess situation and get tram moving.

Announcement...

'Sevre delays across network due to earlier tram failure at Picc Gardens, sorry, blah blah blah.'

I really do not understand what on earth they can do above and beyond that given they did not know how long the fix would be and are not able to give accurate recovery times across the network.

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

I will repeat what happened yesterday.

Tram failed.

Announcement...

'Tram failed, Picc Gardens, Service suspended, sorry, blah blah blah.'

Recovery team reach team, assess situation and get tram moving.

Announcement...

'Servre delays across network due to earlier tram failure at Picc Gardens, sorry, blah blah blah.'

I really do not understand what on earth they can do above and beyond that given they did not know how long the fix would be and are not able to give accurate recovery times across the network.

That is fine as an initial announcement - just what I'm suggesting, but you had said they didn't know where the trams were. I quote "So, if a tram fails between Deansgate_Castlefield and Victoria, the control room have no idea where that tram is or what trams are also in that section".
Then a changing announcement as the incident unfolds, at some moment in time people must be on site, decision made and an idea of how long it will take to remove the stricken vehicle. At that stage you can announce, "The Tram is being moved, we envisage that the next tram will be with you in 30-minutes"
OK If it's not management it is the Board of Directors

[Norb]

RATP = Régie Autonome des Transports Parisiens
FWIW

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by Altfish

That is fine as an initial announcement - just what I'm suggesting, but you had said they didn't know where the trams were. I quote "So, if a tram fails between Deansgate_Castlefield and Victoria, the control room have no idea where that tram is or what trams are also in that section".

They don't, the driver will have informed them via his in cab phone.

Then a changing announcement as the incident unfolds, at some moment in time people must be on site, decision made and an idea of how long it will take to remove the stricken vehicle. At that stage you can announce, "The Tram is being moved, we envisage that the next tram will be with you in 30-minutes"

Announcements were given as the situation evolved, they gave all the info that they could.

But they have no idea how long it will be until each of the near 100 platforms will next get a tram arriving at them.

Imagine the time it takes to work that all out - manually - then communicate that information out to all 100 platforms.

At present, without TMS, there is no way for that information to be automatically provided to people on platforms.

OK If it's not management it is the Board of Directors

I doubt Metrolink has a board of directors.

We have had this discussion before, but there is not a single person on the planet who works for an organisation called Metrolink, well not in Greater Manchester anyway.

Anyway, work to do.
Speak later.

[future.architect]

Delete

[LNGCats]

Originally Posted by Norb

RATP = Régie Autonome des Transports Parisiens
FWIW

French then

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

French then

Boarde de Direction

[Altfish]

Originally Posted by LNGCats

Anyway, work to do.
Speak later.

Yes, I'd better get some down too.

"Will those passengers at Dane Road..."

[LNGCats]

One final post before I really do disappear for a few hours.

Remember, when things like this happen, the tram heading away from the dead tram continue for a fair old while, building up huge gaps on the network where even if service resumed immediately, there would not be a tram for ages.

Where as other parts of the network will have several trams all queuing to get passed the blockage.

A single '30mins delay' message across the whole network would be totally misleading, some stops may see 5 trams in 10mins once the service restarts, some may not see a tram for 20mins due to all the trams having gone passed that stop since the blockage started.

[VoldemortBlack]

The destination blind on 3005 is messed up. There's a blank square flickering on and off covering up what the blind says..

[MartinSFP]

Originally Posted by Altfish

"Due to an earlier failed tram in the Piccadilly Gardens area there are currently some delays to the service."

What exactly does this sort of announcement mean?
It tells you absolutely nothing factual.

I was on that failed tram yesterday. It was a double, and power to the rear unit failed. The driver wouldn't let us off and some people resorted to forcing doors open and jumping out. At one point two older gentlemen fell one on top of the other as they helped each other off, and the one underneath cut his nose with his glasses.

I understand that getting the tram moving is a priority over helping passengers leave, especially as we were blocking the entire south end of the network in moving north, but once about 15 minutes had passed it was ridiculous. He kept promising to get ladders or ramps (or whatever they use) to let us leave but that never happened. I ended up easing myself down from the doorway after half an hour.

[LNGCats]

That was brought up at the meeting with Purdy.

Seems to be great reluctance to dis-board passengers outside stops in case people fall and sue Metrolink.

[mackenziesoley]

Originally Posted by MartinSFP

I was on that failed tram yesterday. It was a double, and power to the rear unit failed. The driver wouldn't let us off and some people resorted to forcing doors open and jumping out. At one point two older gentlemen fell one on top of the other as they helped each other off, and the one underneath cut his nose with his glasses.

I understand that getting the tram moving is a priority over helping passengers leave, especially as we were blocking the entire south end of the network in moving north, but once about 15 minutes had passed it was ridiculous. He kept promising to get ladders or ramps (or whatever they use) to let us leave but that never happened. I ended up easing myself down from the doorway after half an hour.

15mins? And I thought people in the north were more patient?

[MartinSFP]

Originally Posted by mackenziesoley

15mins? And I thought people in the north were more patient?

Ha, I was in a rush - 15 minutes is too long to wait on a tram when it's making you late for an important meeting, especially in the city centre - this was hardly open track in the middle of nowhere. My point is that after that amount of time they should put steps (or whatever they carry for emergencies) up for passengers to leave if they choose. It's a difficult balance, I know, but no-one on that tram was feeling patient when it got towards half an hour, I can tell you