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Old December 22nd, 2012, 04:43 PM   #19561
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tony_H1 View Post
The trams which have the ATS/VRS from the withdrawn T68 trams can only work in multiple with each other Andy, so yes it does have an impact of sorts.
Didn't know that - in that case I accept that there is some relevance.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 05:31 PM   #19562
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It has its problems, a shed load at the moment, however, as we discuss there are well understood reasons for almost all of those problems and overall after two decades of chronic underfunding things are finally improving.

Tram failures seem to be reducing since the M5000 are becoming more common and the T68 disappear.

However, at the moment the operators are trying to massively upgrade the network whilst at the same time run a usual service - remember how many years of weekend closures the WCML upgrade required? Look at how many tube lines shut every weekend for maintenance. TfGM are trying to do something more bigger (in relative terms) without any such disruption.

Sure, the service is no where near as reliable as it should be.

But it is improving, the number of failed trams does seem to be decreasing.

Are improvements happening? Of course, only this month the 20+ year old leaking shelter at Dane Road has been replaced for example - the task is huge.

So yes, the reliability is no where near where we'd want it, the well documented issues with TMS cause all sorts of problems but the reality is what is the alternative?

Which other city in the UK outside of London has it better or a more positive future for their local transport?

I'd suggest what things are very far from good enough, we're on the right path and much progress has already been made.
Not to mention, the system really was built on a shoe-string, so to speak. I know it's not quite as easy as this, but the Bury and Altrincham lines were in a way "thrown together", especially when compared with the ORL and SML and how long it took from starting construction to the opening dates.

TMS has issues, but I'm sure it is the interfaces between TMS, ATS, VRS and the interim solution on the ORL and SML that are the major problems in implementing TMS. I reckon once Victoria station is re-built, the city zone will be "TMS'd", and so will Victoria - Bury & Shaw/Rochdale, at least
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 07:10 PM   #19563
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RAIB were out again this morning, taking a particular interest in the route indicators and proceed signals around Piccadilly Gardens.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 07:39 PM   #19564
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Originally Posted by Shrimper View Post
RAIB were out again this morning, taking a particular interest in the route indicators and proceed signals around Piccadilly Gardens.
I can well imagine that RAIB will be interested in last night's derailment as there was a very similar incident early this year in Croydon which they are investigating. Up to now they haven't really taken much interest in the low speed points derailments on tramways but for some reason they seem to be getting more involved which is strange really as they present very low risk given the speeds involved. I could understand them being concerned about somewhere like Irk Valley or Cornbrook.
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 07:41 PM   #19565
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Felt like everyone in Chorlton was on the tram today, it was like a tin of sardines, the question that occurred to me was what has happened to bus numbers travelling to city centre? Has bus profitability been hammered on Chorlton to city centre routes or has all the extra traffic come from people who used to drive to town?
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Old December 22nd, 2012, 08:18 PM   #19566
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Aye, for the trip to Shaw, there was lots of people having to stand once the tram left Chorlton. Still quite a few people on the Victoria - Shaw section, but nowhere near as many as the Chorlton part. There was even one easy-on-the-eye dude who did the trip to Shaw and then came back on the same tram, must have been a tram-fan too :-)
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:07 AM   #19567
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientist12 View Post
Felt like everyone in Chorlton was on the tram today, it was like a tin of sardines, the question that occurred to me was what has happened to bus numbers travelling to city centre? Has bus profitability been hammered on Chorlton to city centre routes or has all the extra traffic come from people who used to drive to town?
The 85/86 still look very busy most of the time - I suspect they do well from Alexandra Park/Upper Chorlton Road and Hulme still - though the 85 has had its daytime frequency reduced slightly since the Metrolink opened.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 04:07 AM   #19568
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Quote:
Originally Posted by scientist12 View Post
Felt like everyone in Chorlton was on the tram today, it was like a tin of sardines, the question that occurred to me was what has happened to bus numbers travelling to city centre? Has bus profitability been hammered on Chorlton to city centre routes or has all the extra traffic come from people who used to drive to town?
I have a theory - buses are now stupidly expensive. If you took bus price rises from 2005 to 2012 I think you'd be shocked. Many of these bus companies use rising fuel costs as an excuse. To get to and from somewhere on a Stagecoach bus is it normally £3.70. Incredibly bad value for me if you consider I can get a return to and from town for £1.70 during off peak hours or just 80p in the evenings - brilliant when meeting up with friends in town.

In some cases it is cheaper to get a return on the train or tram into Manchester than the bus - which probably explains why the trams were busy today during off-peak weekend hours when people simply wanted to get into town. Essentially: tram & train are good value for off peak hours whereas buses are better value during peak hours.

Where I live it is cheaper to get an off peak train even though I could get the 50 bus. Furthermore, on a train its 30+ minutes quicker and a more pleasant experience. I think bus companies have taken their customers for granted & now a lot of them are moving to cycling (as some of my relatives have done) & being savvy if they know it is cheaper to get the tram or train.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 10:28 AM   #19569
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I do agree about the cost of buses. Even on Oxford Road its costing me £2.10 into town and back again at least, so at least £4.20. I am amazed how quickly I have managed to convert the other half to the tram, I never thought I would see the day when she would stop driving to town and parking in the arndale for shopping. She won't use the bus but now loves the tram. When the parking charges began to regularly hit £6 a trip she changed her behaviour accordingly as she felt she was being ripped off. People are quite price sensitive these days, I don't know if the high parking charges are deliberate to get people onto the trams / buses but it seems to be working. Danger is that they will drive off to the trafford centre.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 10:37 AM   #19570
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Not sure who is charging you £2.10; Magic Buses and Finglands are much cheaper - Finglands between Uni and Picc are £1.10 each way and also offer return tickets (£1.80 IIRC). I think Magic buses are 10p more; still less than £2.10!
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 12:40 PM   #19571
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According to another metrolink forum 1020 is our 11th withdrawn tram
Not sure if true or not though
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sock
Withdrawn:
1001
1004
1005
1006
1008
1010
1011
1015
1018
1019
1020
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:04 PM   #19572
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Not sure of the problem but services suspended between Victoria-Shaw at the moment due to an incident according to Metrolink Website, hope its nothing serious:

Due to an incident at Oldham Mumps, we are unable to operate any services between Victoria and Shaw.

Metrolink tickets will be accepted on the 82 and 83 bus services (Oldham Street stand A) 59 bus service from Lever Street through to Derker/Shaw Crompton.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:12 PM   #19573
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And I quote -

"hahaha some nob has drove up the oldham mumps tram line and slashed his tyres. there's a queue of trams waiting to get past haha brilliant"

https://twitter.com/tomprocterr/stat...90633335681024



https://twitter.com/liamwintermusic/...90059840114688


"23/12/2012 16:57 Oldham line services suspended

Metrolink services

Due to an incident at Oldham Mumps, we are unable to operate any services between Victoria and Shaw.

Metrolink tickets will be accepted on the 82 and 83 bus services (Oldham Street stand A) 59 bus service from Lever Street through to Derker/Shaw Crompton.

A 12 minute service will operate between Altrincham and Bury via Piccadilly.

A 12 minute service will operate on the Eccles/MediaCityUK Line

A 12 minute Service will operate between Shaw and Crompton and St Werberghs Road Line."

Last edited by nistromo; December 23rd, 2012 at 06:20 PM.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:17 PM   #19574
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Quote:
Originally Posted by M60lad View Post
Not sure of the problem but services suspended between Victoria-Shaw at the moment due to an incident according to Metrolink Website, hope its nothing serious:

Due to an incident at Oldham Mumps, we are unable to operate any services between Victoria and Shaw.

Metrolink tickets will be accepted on the 82 and 83 bus services (Oldham Street stand A) 59 bus service from Lever Street through to Derker/Shaw Crompton.
so it took a week for line to Shaw to be suspensed but it must be near Mumps stop as if it at crossing (Oldham way) then surely the can turn trams back at Mumps or opernation trams to Mumps I mean?

Also they got something wrong as 82 bus don't run any more so it should be 83, 180 and 184 bus with 59 bus too.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:20 PM   #19575
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nistromo View Post
"hahaha some nob has drove up the oldham mumps tram line and slashed his tyres. there's a queue of trams waiting to get past haha brilliant"
HAHAHAHAHAHA what a muppet!
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:21 PM   #19576
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I love how their website says no trams to Shaw and then just below says 12 minute service operating between St. Werburgh's Road and Shaw.

If it really is someone driving down the tram line then at least Metrolink can't be blamed.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:28 PM   #19577
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But why can't they openation trams to Oldham Mumps and just suspensed service from Mumps to Shaw, they still can use turnback at Mumps surely? Also look outside my window and PIDS at Freehold got nothing on it but bottom writing is flashing, probably letting passenger know they no service on Oldham line.
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:29 PM   #19578
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A car drove up the metrolink line at Oldham Mumps causing delays

Or as the MEN will put it

Metrolink cause man to drive car up tram line
One horrified resident says 'I was delayed for six minutes gong to he pub. It ridiculous in this day and age.'

...
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:32 PM   #19579
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Quote:
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According to another metrolink forum 1020 is our 11th withdrawn tram
Not sure if true or not though
But if I right the 1020 tram got withdrawn back in November and I don't think any over tram have been withdrawn since so it will be 11th T68 tram got withdrawn?

Quote:
1020 became the eleventh T68 to be withdrawn from service on 2nd November 2012. It last worked on the Bury-Piccadilly service on 31st October 2012 and has now been moved to Trafford Depot for storage. The Lancashire Fusilier nameplates and crests have been removed from the vehicle and they will shortly be fitted to 3020
Off britishtramonline site
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Old December 23rd, 2012, 06:39 PM   #19580
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Quote:
Originally Posted by js1000 View Post
I have a theory - buses are now stupidly expensive. If you took bus price rises from 2005 to 2012 I think you'd be shocked. Many of these bus companies use rising fuel costs as an excuse. To get to and from somewhere on a Stagecoach bus is it normally £3.70. Incredibly bad value for me if you consider I can get a return to and from town for £1.70 during off peak hours or just 80p in the evenings - brilliant when meeting up with friends in town.

In some cases it is cheaper to get a return on the train or tram into Manchester than the bus - which probably explains why the trams were busy today during off-peak weekend hours when people simply wanted to get into town. Essentially: tram & train are good value for off peak hours whereas buses are better value during peak hours.

Where I live it is cheaper to get an off peak train even though I could get the 50 bus. Furthermore, on a train its 30+ minutes quicker and a more pleasant experience. I think bus companies have taken their customers for granted & now a lot of them are moving to cycling (as some of my relatives have done) & being savvy if they know it is cheaper to get the tram or train.
Sounds like you live rather near me!
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