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Old December 3rd, 2011, 05:12 AM   #321
RobertWalpole
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Brookfield took down the image of the "twin" towers it had on its website. Perhaps they feel the need to produce something more dramatic since Related stole the show with its iconic towers nearby.

http://brookfieldofficeproperties.co...est-10846.html
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 09:04 AM   #322
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A little friendly competition never hurt anyone
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 09:27 AM   #323
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Good maybe they'll refine their designs. Because the Hudson Yard looks better.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 02:39 PM   #324
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oooo im excited to see whats new :] if anything
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 07:30 PM   #325
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If anything...?
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 07:41 PM   #326
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim1807 View Post
If anything...?
We don't know for sure if there's been a design change, but it may be possible.
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Old December 3rd, 2011, 09:10 PM   #327
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
We don't know for sure if there's been a design change, but it may be possible.
The images shown thus far are not the final design. They will build towers that suit the needs of the tenants. For example, there will be trading floors only if a bank is a tenant.
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Old December 4th, 2011, 02:57 AM   #328
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Taller i say!
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Old December 5th, 2011, 03:26 PM   #329
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It would be a good move for them to redesign their development. In it's current form it would be lost between the Hudson Yards and ESB and 15 Penn. I think the best thing they could do is to build one building instead of 2 which would be the tallest building in NYC. This way they would save some land for potential future development too and they would build something really iconic ........ that is, if their air rights permit it
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Old December 5th, 2011, 06:21 PM   #330
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I kinda hope that the "belly bop" is still incorporated into whatever the final design is, for some reason i actually like that, especially the old Hudson Yards proposal version.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 01:41 AM   #331
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kanto that probably wouldnt be financially smart to build a taller building. the expense of building it that height and going through all the permits just wouldn't be worth it.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 06:42 AM   #332
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Should have figured Kanto would say build taller.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:16 PM   #333
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kanto that probably wouldnt be financially smart to build a taller building. the expense of building it that height and going through all the permits just wouldn't be worth it.
I wonder, what's the air right limit they currently have?
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Old December 6th, 2011, 02:59 PM   #334
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I don't think the far west side has air rights. Parcels are just zoned for a certain amount of square footage worth of a particular type of development. So a parcel might have 850,000 square feet of office developbility.

You're next question will probably be, well why don't they build the tallest in the city? Because given the extraordinary expense that is associated with building in New York, past a certain height no longer becomes economically feasable. I share your, and most others general disappointment with this sentiment, but thirty years ago buildings north of 700ish were deemed in the same light, outside of the WTC but that was built by government money, and now 1000+ towers are becoming more and economical in both the office market, and residential.

In regards to this particular development, a redesign would not surprise me. Its primary competitors; 15 Penn Plaza, Hudson Yards, and the WTC, all have better locations and better transit. I know the Hudson Yards is still a work in progress, but this part of 9th avenue is not particularly nice.

The one sort of advantage Brookfield has here is a willingness to build on spec, or build to a specific tenants needs. So if TWC wanted their own building, Brookfield would build something for them, and taylor it to their specific needs. I also assume that Brookfield has a lot big buildings around the city, so a company who's pleased with Brookfield now in their current building, buts looking to move may just want to stick with Brookfield and thus move here over the other options I previously mentioned.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:18 PM   #335
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Thanks for the info. I didn't know about this square feet limit

Btw, you're right, as technology develops so does the economical feasibility limit rise as well. The ESB and the Twins were built as tall as possible but all the rest was built for economic feasibility. I feel kinda dissapointed that the current era has no such extremely tall avatar as the previous ones did.

Btw, Brookfield's willingness to shape the design of their towers based on tenant's needs is a definite plus but the other developments might offer similar services in maybe a slightly smaller scale. For example Conde Nast was allowed to build their vents on 1WTC.
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Old December 6th, 2011, 03:35 PM   #336
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Buildings stop becoming practical past about 80 floors or so, so an 80 floor building could potentially be close to 1400 feet tall. NY would look so sick with 400 meter towers.

Even though the WTC was built by government money, it will still make a profit, if it were 2000 feet high to the roof, probably not so much. So basically while it will be a while before NY, or any of the US builds a 2000 plus footer, it should still build as many 1000-1500 foot buildings it can, they're really not that much less impressive.

I really hope the height isn't cut on this building but I wouldn't be exactly shocked if it were.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 03:03 AM   #337
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Quote:
Originally Posted by yankeesfan1000 View Post
I don't think the far west side has air rights. Parcels are just zoned for a certain amount of square footage worth of a particular type of development. So a parcel might have 850,000 square feet of office developbility.

You're next question will probably be, well why don't they build the tallest in the city? Because given the extraordinary expense that is associated with building in New York, past a certain height no longer becomes economically feasable. I share your, and most others general disappointment with this sentiment, but thirty years ago buildings north of 700ish were deemed in the same light, outside of the WTC but that was built by government money, and now 1000+ towers are becoming more and economical in both the office market, and residential.

In regards to this particular development, a redesign would not surprise me. Its primary competitors; 15 Penn Plaza, Hudson Yards, and the WTC, all have better locations and better transit. I know the Hudson Yards is still a work in progress, but this part of 9th avenue is not particularly nice.

The one sort of advantage Brookfield has here is a willingness to build on spec, or build to a specific tenants needs. So if TWC wanted their own building, Brookfield would build something for them, and taylor it to their specific needs. I also assume that Brookfield has a lot big buildings around the city, so a company who's pleased with Brookfield now in their current building, buts looking to move may just want to stick with Brookfield and thus move here over the other options I previously mentioned.
Brookfield is the biggest landlord in Lower Manhattan and has close to 11 Million SF of space including the entire World Financial Center complex. They are also one of the biggest landlords in North America and should have no dearth of big tenants.

The Manhattan West project is closer to Penn Station and the existing transit network than the Hudson Yards, and has very decent transit access.

I am sure that they will end up maximizing the FAR available for the site but the design will probably evolve with time and the market rather than start out with the maximum possible BUA right away.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 04:23 AM   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ajaypp View Post
Brookfield is the biggest landlord in Lower Manhattan and has close to 11 Million SF of space including the entire World Financial Center complex. They are also one of the biggest landlords in North America and should have no dearth of big tenants.

The Manhattan West project is closer to Penn Station and the existing transit network than the Hudson Yards, and has very decent transit access.

I am sure that they will end up maximizing the FAR available for the site but the design will probably evolve with time and the market rather than start out with the maximum possible BUA right away.
Manhattan West is one block closer to Penn than the Yards. More importantly, the Yards will have a stop for the No. 7 subway which connects to Grand Central and Times Square. Once the LIRR tunnel connection to Grand Central is complete, Long Island commuters won't even need to go to Penn Station and walk to the Yards. They can get off at Grand Central and ride the 7. Simply put: The Hudson Yards will have better transit links than Manhattan West.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 03:14 PM   #339
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Couldn't have said it better myself RW.
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Old December 7th, 2011, 04:53 PM   #340
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No questions that the 7 Line will be a boon to Hudson Yards but Manhattan West is close enough to Penn and to the new 7 Station that it will hardly make a difference. As you said, it is the question of one block more or less. Except in a bad Winter, lol! This project is an example of Transit Adjacent Development as opposed to true TOD.
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