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Supertalls Discussions of projects under construction between 300-599m/1,000-1,999ft tall.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 12:58 PM   #661
Ajaypp
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@Robert - Lol, you and I will never agree as to the demand for office at Manhattan West. I believe that there are a few factors in its favor.

While I agree that Hudson Yards' mixed use nature, tax abatements and scale will potentially add up to a lower office rental level, MW has excellent location with much better walkability to Penn Station. For potential tenants, the truely regional access afforded by that may equal, if not trump, the access via the 7 Line (to Grand Central) at HY.

Secondly, since leasing of big towers is not just determined by the availability of vacant space but also the contiguity of space, especially in the case of anchor tenants, once HY's towers each have one or more anchors (as they already seem to have with Coach, PLR, L'Oreal etc), the next big tenant may prefer one of the MW towers, especially if it wants naming rights. There are a number of major tenants looking to consolidate space in Midtown, and anyone with a requirement of upwards of 500,000 SF of contiguous space may look to the first MW tower once HY Tower 2 gets its first one or two anchors.

Third, MW may not be competing directly with the WTC complex since Midtown and Downtown have different tenant profiles. Except for Conde Nest's move to 1 WTC, Midtown has generally been the preferred location for media, fashion and technology firms (in addition to financial services) while Downtown has been preferred mostly by financial services and consulting firms. This is an outcome of the clustering effect and is unlikely to change soon. Hence, MW may be competing only within its office sub-market, where there's already be a wave of consolidation and moving out of older buildings in progress. After HY, MW is in line to break ground first (on an actual office tower), before 15 Penn or any of the other projects.

Finally, the addition of a residential tower will enhance the mixed use qualities of the project and add a Live-Work-Play element to what started out as pure office project. And of course, Brookfield has deeper pockets through its parent company, than almost any other developer in New York.

That said, I'd settle for one office tower now and then a super-tall via consolidation of space with that monstrosity next door, although I wonder if that site has enough terra firma for a major tower.

Cheers!
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Old January 17th, 2013, 01:25 PM   #662
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Love it. NY forever )
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Old January 17th, 2013, 02:02 PM   #663
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tim1807 View Post
Yes, they indeed look a bit like the Time Warner Center because they are both glassy. But these will be higher and they could become the highest twin towers in the US. If build so.
You know they're not talking about Time Warner.
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Last edited by kingsc; January 17th, 2013 at 02:38 PM.
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Old January 17th, 2013, 05:47 PM   #664
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I get it, he was talking about your avatar.
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Old January 18th, 2013, 12:28 AM   #665
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yes
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Old January 21st, 2013, 05:00 PM   #666
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Update:

North and South hoarding walls are up and the foundation contractors are demo'ing the exisiting retaining walls down to the elevation of the new capping beam structure. Lots of rock to break and drill out. Slower process than normal because the soil here is considered to be contaminated and needs to be disposed of in a special way.

Working west to east, drilling for caissons will follow.

999 is mobilized to help with he south side hoarding wall work and caisson tubes.

The foundations for the TPP will start soon, drilling for caissons and and cap beams will occur on 5 hour weekend outages.

Steel for the South and North capping and launching beams is in fabrication.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 05:52 PM   #667
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With what is the soil contaminated?
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Old January 21st, 2013, 07:04 PM   #668
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i dont know exactly what, but could be any of a hundred things.
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Old January 21st, 2013, 09:29 PM   #669
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Former rail yard? I would think of oil, grease etc.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:39 AM   #670
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At least there is progress.
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Old January 22nd, 2013, 01:44 PM   #671
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Removing contaminated soil may take some more time, its disposal is also a lot more expensive.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 05:42 PM   #672
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it was always a known quantity on the project.
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Old January 23rd, 2013, 08:35 PM   #673
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The fact that this is relatively close to Penn Station for commuters from NJ and Long Island (and also downtown) as well as access to travel throughout the N.E on Amtrak, should be a major factor in leasing for these towers. Firms with more staff living in these areas might consider moving here over the more remote Hudson Yards or WTC which only has subway access/PATH service.

Whatever the towers look like, the plaza is a very important thing to have.

Last edited by aquablue; January 23rd, 2013 at 08:40 PM.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 03:42 AM   #674
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Quote:
Originally Posted by aquablue View Post
The fact that this is relatively close to Penn Station for commuters from NJ and Long Island (and also downtown) as well as access to travel throughout the N.E on Amtrak, should be a major factor in leasing for these towers. Firms with more staff living in these areas might consider moving here over the more remote Hudson Yards or WTC which only has subway access/PATH service.

Whatever the towers look like, the plaza is a very important thing to have.
The HY will be better suited for commuters from LI, Westchester, and Conn, because they all can take the 7 for GCT.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:21 AM   #675
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Is the OP's render still the current design? I'm confused...
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Old January 24th, 2013, 02:43 PM   #676
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No. There is no current design. There are no tenants, and I don't see any going here for quite some time. Excluding Related's HY, there are many better options for tenants seeking new construction. As noted, I expect to see Brookfield shift even more square footage to residential.

If in 5 or 10 years, a tenant comes, that tenant will dictate the design. Do you recall how Coach mandated the change from the tumored boxes that Related originally planned to the current design? If Brookfield eventually lands a media company, fashion company, financial company, or law firm as its anchor tenant, they all have different needs which will dictate the design.

Last edited by RobertWalpole; January 24th, 2013 at 02:50 PM.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 07:54 PM   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by RobertWalpole View Post
The HY will be better suited for commuters from LI, Westchester, and Conn, because they all can take the 7 for GCT.
Still, from LI that requires a transfer instead of a one-seat-ride and a short walk from Penn. Also, it depends on how many staff members a certain company would have living in NJ.
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Old January 24th, 2013, 08:00 PM   #678
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Everyone from Westechester and Connecticut will be getting off a GCT and transferring to the 7. Also, many NJ commuters don't even arrive at Penn. Lastly, there is talk about extending the 7 to the NJT Seacaucus station which is where many NJ commuters funnel through.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 01:15 AM   #679
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Quote:
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Everyone from Westechester and Connecticut will be getting off a GCT and transferring to the 7. Also, many NJ commuters don't even arrive at Penn. Lastly, there is talk about extending the 7 to the NJT Seacaucus station which is where many NJ commuters funnel through.
Many Westchester/CT commuters will have a choice in the coming years of going to Penn via the new proposed access project once the ESA opens. Given a no-transfer service from Long Island (LIRR), New Jersey(NJT & PATH), and the aforementioned project, I think non stop service to Penn followed by a short walk to Manhattan West beats the transfer onto the crowded 7 at GCT. Also, the 7 is very unlikely to be extended to NJ. Most likely the Amtrak Gateway project will be the project that will go ahead. The MTA are against the extension to NJ and have shown no interest in it.
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Old January 25th, 2013, 05:13 AM   #680
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I've commuted into the City for 15+ years...I think commuters would rather take the LIRR right to Penn and walk one block, than to take the LIRR to GCT and transfer to the 7 train. For one, it's quicker going directly to Penn and another thing, it's cheaper. no need to purchase a monthly Metrocard, $112.00 on top of your monthly LIRR pass.

Also, Manhattan West is assessible by 7 subway lines, A,C,E,1,2,3 & 9 are all within two blocks. New Jersey commuters also have the PATH stopping at 32/6th.

I see Manhattan West as convient, if not more convient then the Hudson Yards buildings.

BTW-Robert..I followed your post for a while back at SSP...enjoyed your insight...not sure what happened, but it's good to see posting here.
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