PROJECT - Ras Al Khaimah: PACIFIC

[markysparky]

Originally Posted by gspmma

To be honest I just don't want to waste anymore time and getting myself stressed out over the matter. Guess I'll just have to wait until it is resold (if it ever will), and then cross that bridge when I come to it.

This raises an interesting point, and Kiriloo's comment contributes too.... is anyone out there actually 'officially' in default, or have people just stopped paying in and therefore consider themselves in default. Surely there is an official default process which must be followed.... after warning buyer of their intention and giving one last chance, Select write to the buyer, buyer accepts and signs an agreement to give up 30%, Select then agree in writing to return the rest of any money etc etc. otherwise it's not really a default, it's a pause in payment, and closer to completion select will approach those people and could offer a deal, as others have suggested. Anyone out there who can advise? Surely gspmma you would want to get some of that money back if you could, after all you have been through....?

[gspmma]

My last correspondence from SG was the Legal Payment Notice warning of 30 day period to make payment or else SG will exercise their rights under Clause 15.4(a) of the Sales Purchase Agreement? Anyone here got further than this? Yes I would of course like to get some money back, but don't see much grounds as bottom line is I have stopped payments. It is I who has decided to call it a day. And to be totally unbiased, I have to put it down to me having made a bad investment in terms of timing. I can't lay any blame on SG other than perhaps they could have exercised a bit more flexibility and allowed me to transfer to a cheaper plot in order to keep an investor/client on board - but I guess that maybe it's not that important to them as they are that confident that my plot will be snapped up just like that!

Originally Posted by markysparky

This raises an interesting point, and Kiriloo's comment contributes too.... is anyone out there actually 'officially' in default, or have people just stopped paying in and therefore consider themselves in default. Surely there is an official default process which must be followed.... after warning buyer of their intention and giving one last chance, Select write to the buyer, buyer accepts and signs an agreement to give up 30%, Select then agree in writing to return the rest of any money etc etc. otherwise it's not really a default, it's a pause in payment, and closer to completion select will approach those people and could offer a deal, as others have suggested. Anyone out there who can advise? Surely gspmma you would want to get some of that money back if you could, after all you have been through....?

[vanderlo83]

Originally Posted by gspmma

My last correspondence from SG was the Legal Payment Notice warning of 30 day period to make payment or else SG will exercise their rights under Clause 15.4(a) of the Sales Purchase Agreement? Anyone here got further than this? Yes I would of course like to get some money back, but don't see much grounds as bottom line is I have stopped payments. It is I who has decided to call it a day. And to be totally unbiased, I have to put it down to me having made a bad investment in terms of timing. I can't lay any blame on SG other than perhaps they could have exercised a bit more flexibility and allowed me to transfer to a cheaper plot in order to keep an investor/client on board - but I guess that maybe it's not that important to them as they are that confident that my plot will be snapped up just like that!

this is my situation too. another factor to consider - those on LPP are unlikely to have paid 30% because SP told me that they calculate the 30% based not on the price at the time of purchase, but the price your apartment would be at the end of the 15yrs i.e. with added interest

[Kiriloo]

That's exactly how I see things being played out markysparky.

Kiriloo

Originally Posted by markysparky

This raises an interesting point, and Kiriloo's comment contributes too.... is anyone out there actually 'officially' in default, or have people just stopped paying in and therefore consider themselves in default. Surely there is an official default process which must be followed.... after warning buyer of their intention and giving one last chance, Select write to the buyer, buyer accepts and signs an agreement to give up 30%, Select then agree in writing to return the rest of any money etc etc. otherwise it's not really a default, it's a pause in payment, and closer to completion select will approach those people and could offer a deal, as others have suggested. Anyone out there who can advise? Surely gspmma you would want to get some of that money back if you could, after all you have been through....?

[markysparky]

Originally Posted by vanderlo83

this is my situation too. another factor to consider - those on LPP are unlikely to have paid 30% because SP told me that they calculate the 30% based not on the price at the time of purchase, but the price your apartment would be at the end of the 15yrs i.e. with added interest

Seems a very arbitrary calculation, especially as there's nothing in the contract about this. Does it work both ways then? So if Select default on completion date we can ask not just for our money back, but an inflated amount based on a projection 15 years from now with added interest? I doubt it. And it certainly does not seem fair that someone on SPP who will by now have paid 75 - 90% of the total should be more penalised than someone on LPP who may not even have paid the 30% yet. Can't help feeling that for a defaulter this would be one for a solicitor.

[theammer]

I reiterate that surely Select owe us all a "duty of care" regarding this project. Has anyone sought legal advice based on the signed contract and the current position/progress of this project or shall we all club together and get legal advice?

[willBB79]

Originally Posted by markysparky

Seems a very arbitrary calculation, especially as there's nothing in the contract about this. Does it work both ways then? So if Select default on completion date we can ask not just for our money back, but an inflated amount based on a projection 15 years from now with added interest? I doubt it. And it certainly does not seem fair that someone on SPP who will by now have paid 75 - 90% of the total should be more penalised than someone on LPP who may not even have paid the 30% yet. Can't help feeling that for a defaulter this would be one for a solicitor.

Markysparky i don't quite follow you on this one. I've recently been through the contract again (im on 15 yr plan) with a fine toothcomb and the default section clearly refers to the contract price. Providing everyone else's contracts are like mine, the only price in my contract is the inflated 15 yr price so any percentages linked with cancellations would also have to be off this price. Not sure what you mean by the SPP part though, how could they be more penalised if the max select can take is 30%?

[gspmma]

Ok, for those like myself on LPP - when I spoke with Select about defaulting, they worked on some figures on the 30%, what I have paid to date and therefore what surplus is due back to me upon resale of property. The figures were based on the inflated 15yr price. E.g. - not on the original price of the property approx. 1.5m AED, but on the 2.5m AED (or whatever the figure is) in my case. Subsequently I am due back peanuts (something like 10k AED), hence I am not too interested.

Originally Posted by willBB79

Markysparky i don't quite follow you on this one. I've recently been through the contract again (im on 15 yr plan) with a fine toothcomb and the default section clearly refers to the contract price. Providing everyone else's contracts are like mine, the only price in my contract is the inflated 15 yr price so any percentages linked with cancellations would also have to be off this price. Not sure what you mean by the SPP part though, how could they be more penalised if the max select can take is 30%?

[OMAR.WAZIR]

Originally Posted by gspmma

Ok, for those like myself on LPP - when I spoke with Select about defaulting, they worked on some figures on the 30%, what I have paid to date and therefore what surplus is due back to me upon resale of property. The figures were based on the inflated 15yr price. E.g. - not on the original price of the property approx. 1.5m AED, but on the 2.5m AED (or whatever the figure is) in my case. Subsequently I am due back peanuts (something like 10k AED), hence I am not too interested.

Could you possibly argue this as case through a lawyer? The 15yr of payments was effectively a payment plan on the 70% of the cost price on the LPP.

Initially we had to pay 30% of the lower price you mentioned which was the purchase price and then the remainder was put on the LPP.

Maybe I have misunderstood and the contract is watertight for the developer but seems very unfair and worth clarifying independantly.

[markysparky]

Originally Posted by willBB79

Markysparky i don't quite follow you on this one. I've recently been through the contract again (im on 15 yr plan) with a fine toothcomb and the default section clearly refers to the contract price. Providing everyone else's contracts are like mine, the only price in my contract is the inflated 15 yr price so any percentages linked with cancellations would also have to be off this price. Not sure what you mean by the SPP part though, how could they be more penalised if the max select can take is 30%?

Maybe I'm getting worked up unnecessarily.... as I am not on LPP. I am on short plan, so have already paid 90% of the price, and in my contract it very clearly says 'purchase price' and not any other contract price, inflated or otherwise. So if I was to default before/at completion (i.e not paying the final 10%) I would expect to receive back two thirds of what I have already paid out, losing the rest as a penalty and with no rights to the property after that. I can see that gspmma and others, on LPP, lose considerably more on a default. Any short plan buyers defaulted out there.... and did you get any money back?

[Kiriloo]

Select will not pay anything back over 30% because they cannot sell the apartments on in this current climate.

Of course it raises the question, if they can't pay anything back, is the purchaser still in a default situation. I would argue not.

I am not aware of anyone that has received anything back.


Kiriloo

Originally Posted by markysparky

Maybe I'm getting worked up unnecessarily.... as I am not on LPP. I am on short plan, so have already paid 90% of the price, and in my contract it very clearly says 'purchase price' and not any other contract price, inflated or otherwise. So if I was to default before/at completion (i.e not paying the final 10%) I would expect to receive back two thirds of what I have already paid out, losing the rest as a penalty and with no rights to the property after that. I can see that gspmma and others, on LPP, lose considerably more on a default. Any short plan buyers defaulted out there.... and did you get any money back?

[marksageeza]

for info, LPP payers pay a 30% upfront deposit then the LPP kicks in.

[Ben44]

The building is going up and Select is doing what they said so why not focus on what is happening for the good rather than getting worked up on getting your money back. I had 5 years of this with the Torch and have 2 bed here but do some research before paying the money and in the case if this one look at the other project threads on the same island before thinking your all so hard done by.

[Morrismarina]

Originally Posted by Kiriloo

Select will not pay anything back over 30% because they cannot sell the apartments on in this current climate.

Of course it raises the question, if they can't pay anything back, is the purchaser still in a default situation. I would argue not.

I am not aware of anyone that has received anything back.


Kiriloo

The contract will not mention anything about the developer selling the property before there's an obligation to provide a refund. Don't be taken in by this sort of stuff. In contract law you cannot imply something that is not in the contract, hence legally you will be able to claim a refund without the sale of your unit taking place first.

[CraigM]

My unit is PA-D506A and is a one bed purchased for AED 1,791,481 on LPP.

Quarterly payments are AED 24,030 and it is on Floor 5 looking straight out to sea.

To date I have paid AED 590,000 and will not be making anymore payments.

Rather than walk away and handing Select the opportunity is anyone interested in making me an offer. If so please email me on crewam@gmail.com

[gspmma]

Good luck mate!

Originally Posted by CraigM

My unit is PA-D506A and is a one bed purchased for AED 1,791,481 on LPP.

Quarterly payments are AED 24,030 and it is on Floor 5 looking straight out to sea.

To date I have paid AED 590,000 and will not be making anymore payments.

Rather than walk away and handing Select the opportunity is anyone interested in making me an offer. If so please email me on crewam@gmail.com

[Kiriloo]

Hi Morrismarina,

Yes I agree with you totally.

Select is refusing to pay anyone back until they re-sell them so I would argue until they pay it back, the default is not complete.

Perhaps this is how Select want to leave us - in no man's land.

What do you think?

Kiriloo

Originally Posted by Morrismarina

The contract will not mention anything about the developer selling the property before there's an obligation to provide a refund. Don't be taken in by this sort of stuff. In contract law you cannot imply something that is not in the contract, hence legally you will be able to claim a refund without the sale of your unit taking place first.

[theammer]

We have now totally lost faith in the ability to generate any revenue income and/or a return on our capital from the Pacific Development so we are now seriously considering walking away from this investment as I can make far better use of the future payments (on LPP payment plan) than just pouring it down the tubes which is what will happen here.

We were really shocked by those photographs of the infrastructure in the recent attempt by Select Property to show how well the project was progressing,

I have discussed my concerns regarding the infrastructure with Andy on numerous occassions and the fact that a friend of mine went to see the island on my request and basically told me that apart from a few buildings there was no infrastructure to speak off.

Knowing how concerned we all are re the infrastructure, I would have made darn sure I put the best possible photos in the update to try and allay our fears. The photos used by Select just crystallised our worst fears and after thinking about it for a couple of weeks I am currently of the mind to suspend further payments until I have seen the island and the Pacific development with my own eyes. However, I will take legal advice before taking such an action.

To be fair we cannot blame Select for the meltdown in the world economy but I believe we can hold them to account with regard to owing its investors, us, a duty of care and I believe they should have pulled stumps ages ago when it was obvious the island development was dying in the water and the lack of investment by the RAK authorities in the island project.

However, it is the comments regarding the Point development that is the killer for us and we can see no reason why Pacific will not go the same way.

I have put some proposals to Select but no doubt they will tow the party line so we will just have to be big grown ups and make a decision that could mean we wave goodbye to a large sum of much needed funds but sometimes the big painful decisions need to be made to move on and bring closure to the worse investment decision I have made in my life.

We are feeling very disappointed and somewhat angry but then again we signed the contract. If only I had listened to a friend, a single voice, who unlike the so called experts I sought advice from at the time of purchase told to get out and even tried to use the services of his Sister's law firm to get us out of the contract but to no avail - hindsight is a wonderful thing!!

Can I ask if anyone has sought legal advice or can anyone recommend a reliable law firm.

[beer51]

Hi theammer

We in Blu Mirage (not far from Pacific in Al Marjan Island) are using the solicitor below, they are not cheap but try them.

CMS Cameron McKenna LLP
www.cms-cmck.com

Tel: +44 207 367 3021 (direct)

[bobbymoonface]

Originally Posted by beer51

Hi theammer

We in Blu Mirage (not far from Pacific in Al Marjan Island) are using the solicitor below, they are not cheap but try them.

CMS Cameron McKenna LLP
www.cms-cmck.com

Tel: +44 207 367 3021 (direct)

Can you share with us the basis of your action against BM please?

I'd happily get involved in a 'class action' against SP

Many thanks