LEXINGTON | CentrePointe | 388 FT | 30 FL | Pro

[g-man430]

Just tear down the eyesores and build it I say. TheDame can move to the suburbs like everything else.

[starbuc jupiter]

It is a nice looking building and it is just the right kind of development theat can spur other quality projects to happen nearby. It adds to the skyline without overpowering it and it is a destination all on its own.

As for the big equestrian event in 2010, take a lesson from Atlanta '96. Investing in things that have no purpose afterward is very dangerous, entertain your guests well and invest in quality. The crowd that will be visiting is a well traveled group and they are not the average tourist. They are there for the events and everything else is secondary.

[cartomanlex]

Originally Posted by TheDame

This isn't entirely about "student entertainment". Since only ages 21+ can enter The Dame, students aren't really much of an issue.

We're talking about the 21 - 35 demographic. Exactly the young professionals that we can barely keep in Lexington as it is. I doubt these people are going to see any benefits from a luxury hotel they can't afford, condos they can't afford, office space that will probably end up being as vacant as all the other office buildings downtown, a chain restaurant that they can't afford, and retail that doesn't have much of a chance based on the previous Webb offerings.

I've heard talk of many leaving Lexington once this deal is finalized. I don't blame them.

If you are not about the student set then why is the student newspaper all upset about the loss of the Dame? Why did the investors place themselves between UK and Transy? Are these young professionals trying to hold on to their youth by partying with the same music as the student crowd, only away from them? And, if all these young professionals are so gung ho to leave Lexington, then why are we still growing in that demographic? We are closing in on 300K in population in Lexington alone and we are not a retirement center.

I've seen this all before, the young people come to school, stay to work and retire elsewhere. I have two nieces and one nephew who have left after college to work other places(big cities), fell in love and came home to get married and have kids. My brother left for a career in the service, then came home after he retired. We are still gaining population at a fairly good pace.

[seicer]

From Nougat --

This blog is for events that we received after our monthly deadline, and so missed being on our calendar. We will add them as we receive them.

Save Downtown Lexington is VIDEO TAPING TESTIMONIES,
TUESDAY MARCH 18TH 8AM THROUGH 12PM, ON THE SECOND
FLOOR OF THE DOWNTOWN PUBLIC LIBRARY- LOOKING OVER THE
BLOCK IN QUESTION.

WE WILL ALSO VIDEO TAPE TESTIMONIES, FRIDAY MARCH 21ST
8AM THROUGH 5PM, ON THE SECOND FLOOR OF THE DOWNTOWN
PUBLIC LIBRARY-LOOKING OVER THE BLOCK IN QUESTION.

We are looking for people to share their memories and
stories of the businesses and the buildings on the
block. We are not asking people to talk about the
issues facing the block, but only to tell their
stories and interactions.

Refreshments will be provided.

Everybody with a story to tell will be filmed.

We encourage you to pass this information on to
anybody with a story.

The goal of these testimonies will be to add words to
the bricks.

These testimonies will be screened at an event called
Wake Up Lexington: Help Save Our Block, March 29
Saturday at 1030 AM at the Kentucky Theater.

Please Participate LEXINGTON needs your help, and
bring your friends.

For any questions please contact Griffin VanMeter at
ale8forme@gmail.com or 859.243.0000

The Webb Companies have also dedicated a phone like to
receiving calls commenting on its proposed
development. We do not know if The Webb Cos. will
share with the community the comments it receives. But
we do believe that it is important that we call this
line and politely express our concerns. We encourage
you to call this number and express your opposition to
the development currently on the table and your
support for an alternative project that marries great
design with the preservation of the entertainment
district and the historically and architecturally
significant buildings on this block.

You can reach the Webb Hotline at (859) 253-0000.

[TheDame]

Originally Posted by cartomanlex

If you are not about the student set then why is the student newspaper all upset about the loss of the Dame? Why did the investors place themselves between UK and Transy? Are these young professionals trying to hold on to their youth by partying with the same music as the student crowd, only away from them? And, if all these young professionals are so gung ho to leave Lexington, then why are we still growing in that demographic? We are closing in on 300K in population in Lexington alone and we are not a retirement center.

I've seen this all before, the young people come to school, stay to work and retire elsewhere. I have two nieces and one nephew who have left after college to work other places(big cities), fell in love and came home to get married and have kids. My brother left for a career in the service, then came home after he retired. We are still gaining population at a fairly good pace.

Just because I posted an article from the KY Kernel doesn't mean that they are the only newspaper opposed to the development. In fact, almost EVERY publication in Lexington has expressed concerns.

Business Lexington - http://www.bizlex.com/Articles-c-200...bs_Future.html

Lexington Herald-Leader
http://musicalbox.wordpress.com/2008...-and-the-dame/
http://www.kentucky.com/179/story/338479.html
http://www.kentucky.com/179/story/338478.html
http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/338477.html
http://www.kentucky.com/454/story/335504.html
http://www.realcities.com/mld/kentuc...s/18437872.htm

Ace Weekly
http://www.aceweekly.com/Cover_Story...Weighs_In.html

Nougat Magazine
http://www.nougatmagazine.com/pdf/08Mar.pdf

KY Kernel
http://media.www.kykernel.com/media/...mlemailedition
http://media.www.kykernel.com/media/...-3243440.shtml

[TheDame]

Originally Posted by cartomanlex

If you are not about the student set then why is the student newspaper all upset about the loss of the Dame? Why did the investors place themselves between UK and Transy? Are these young professionals trying to hold on to their youth by partying with the same music as the student crowd, only away from them? And, if all these young professionals are so gung ho to leave Lexington, then why are we still growing in that demographic? We are closing in on 300K in population in Lexington alone and we are not a retirement center.

I've seen this all before, the young people come to school, stay to work and retire elsewhere. I have two nieces and one nephew who have left after college to work other places(big cities), fell in love and came home to get married and have kids. My brother left for a career in the service, then came home after he retired. We are still gaining population at a fairly good pace.

"If you are not about the student set then why is the student newspaper all upset about the loss of the Dame?"

-We want student support, of course. I simply stated that the majority of students can't enter The Dame. You are trying to make it seem as though only college students patronize The Dame, and I'm countering you. Why would students NOT be upset about the loss of The Dame?

"Why did the investors place themselves between UK and Transy?"

-Because they are intelligent investors? The center of a city is a pretty obvious place to put a business that relies on customers physically walking into the property.

"Are these young professionals trying to hold on to their youth by partying with the same music as the student crowd, only away from them?"

-I don't know about you, but I don't think people in the 21 - 35 year old bracket are concerned about holding on to their youth. Personally, I consider 21 - 35 year olds as young individuals, and I am one of them.

Obviously, you aren't familiar with the music we bring to The Dame. We program bands for everyone, not just students. Maybe you've heard of The Zombies (sixties band, "Time of the Season", "Tell Her No"), X (first album in 1978), Rickie Lee Jones ("Chuck E's In Love"), Tom Tom Club (1/2 of Talking Heads, "Genius of Love"), Wanda Jackson (dated Elvis Presley, first singles in 1956), The Wailers (perhaps you've heard of Bob Marley? This is his band. Formed in 1965 or so), Blue Cheer (60's band, "Summertime Blues"), Hasil Adkins (rockabilly pioneer, first singles in 1950's), Leon Russell (60's and 70's musician), Poco ("Crazy Love"), Lee Rocker (bass player for The Stray Cats), Billy Joe Shaver, John Hammond, Sam Bush (of New Grass Revival. First album in 1971), Glenn Tilbrook of Squeeze ("Tempted"), Bernie Worrell (from Parliament Funkadelic), Goose Creek Symphony (started in 1970), Tommy Ramone (original drummer for The Ramones), Chip Taylor (wrote "Wild Thing" and "Angel of the Morning"), Johnny Cash's Tennessee Three (what's left of Johnny's band), Pete Best (original drummer for The Beatles), Burrito Deluxe (members of the Flying Burrito Brothers and featuring Garth Hudson from The Band). Get the point?

"And, if all these young professionals are so gung ho to leave Lexington, then why are we still growing in that demographic?"

-Because Lexington has been going in the right direction for the past five years. This development is a huge step backwards.

"We are closing in on 300K in population in Lexington alone and we are not a retirement center."

-Obviously.

[g-man430]

Don't you just hate NIMBY'S?

[seicer]

Let's add in here the low occupancy rate of the Griffin Gate, a luxury hotel, and the fact that a private developer wants to build a four-star luxury hotel at the Kentucky Horse Park (partially with state funds), and that we can't even fully sell out condominium/loft units at our existing developments!

Too many dollar signs are lodged in developers' heads
Proposal for huge hotel is driven by dollar signs, not sense
By Merlene Davis, Herald-Leader columnist, March 13, 2008

It seems we have become dazzled by the proposed number of folks coming to our area during September and October 2010 for the Alltech FEI World Equestrian Games, and that is leading to greed that folks seem unwilling or unable to control.

The estimate is about a half-million people flocking to the Bluegrass from more than 60 nations, spending at least $150 million, according to estimates on the WEG Web site.

Of course, the visitors will need somewhere to stay, but is a new downtown luxury mega-hotel the answer?

CentrePointe, the $250 million, 40-story skyscraper, proposed for downtown Lexington, seems a bit too much for Lexington.

The project will feature a 243-room, four-star hotel, plus 77 condominiums and 26,000 square feet of retail space, while engulfing the whole block bounded by Main, Upper and Vine streets and North Limestone.

Someone please tell me why we need all that.

There are only a few times each year, such as the Kentucky Derby or Keeneland meets, or maybe even University of Kentucky football homecoming or the boys Sweet Sixteen basketball tournament, that Lexington is swamped with enough visitors to warrant more hotel rooms downtown than we already have.

And when that happens in the future, couldn't we just send folks out to the proposed 267-room hotel at the Kentucky Horse Park?

The construction of both hotels appears to be targeted at the influx of that estimated half-million folks attending the equestrian games.

But after those folks leave, after they have stayed as long as 16 days in the Bluegrass, what then?

The 77 condos presumably will be bought by 77 very rich people despite the slowed economy.

But even with the creation of 1,100 new parking spots to squelch the ”nowhere-to-park“ arguments that shoppers might present, what retail stores could CentrePointe offer that would entice the average Lexing*tonian from the suburbs to shop downtown?

Come on, people. Let's slow down a bit on this one.

I'm all for a luxury four-star hotel in the middle of downtown Lexington. This city has always considered itself highfalutin because of the thoroughbred industry. A luxury hotel would be in keeping with that image.

I'm just not in favor of one that big and dominating that might sit nearly empty six months out of the year.

We have gone out of our way to make downtown Lexington appear warm and welcoming despite the blue-blood leanings. Successfully, I might add.

We have some of the most beautiful *hanging floral displays throughout the *summer, coupled with lush potted arrangements all along downtown streets.

We have the quaint lampposts that elicit warm and fuzzy notions of bygone days, even though several have burned-out bulbs.

A towering building of glass and steel doesn't add much ambience to that picture.

But then, I don't own it and probably won't benefit that much from any taxes it might generate. I don't look at downtown Lexington with dollar signs in my eyes.

Residents of Lexington need to figure out who we are before we allow a building to define us, especially a building that will be built with amazing speed just to cash in on visitors who might visit only once.

If the plans were scaled back to allow Lexington to retain some semblance of its charm, more people might embrace the CentrePointe project.

What's wrong with 25 stories, 35 condos, 120 rooms, half the parking and only a few stores and restaurants?

Wouldn't that fit in with the landscape we have now?

The developers would still make money and residents would still have time to adjust to the changing downtown profile.

Let's get a grip.

City officials should mimic the tortoise's slow and steady pace instead of the hare's speed on this one.

[TheDame]

Lexington Herald-Leader Letters to the Editor - 3/19/2008

LEXINGTON TOO EAGER TO DESTROY ITS UNIQUENESS

Since moving to Lexington in 1977, I've been continually impressed by two Central Kentucky characteristics: pride in the things that make the Bluegrass special, and the seeming indifference to the destruction of those things.

Yes, it's good to improve Lexington's downtown. However, do we really want to replace thriving local businesses and historic architecture with a generic, impersonal glass tower containing a chain hotel?

Remember that CentrePointe is brought to you by the same company that razed historic buildings on Main Street to bring us the failed Festival Market in the 1980s.

We now have a Downtown Master Plan, which was created to prevent more Festival Market mistakes and, instead, promote vibrant and pedestrian-friendly urban infill around historic structures, badly needed in these times of economic downturn to keep people downtown. Although this plan is a guideline, not a law, it should be followed.

Soon the CentrePointe developers will be asking for funding in the form of tax increment financing, which will keep money out of our local government coffers.

However, since most of the existing buildings on this block are eligible for the National Register of Historic Places and, therefore, could receive state and federal historic preservation tax credits for rehabilitation, Lexingtonians should insist that we save money and promote downtown by building on -- not building over -- what we already have.

Alice Wasielewski
Lexington

KEEP MUSIC VENUE

So we, the taxpayers, are supposed to support The Webb Cos.' evil plan to erect -- and boy do I mean erect -- a useless, self-serving high-rise?

Don't we get a vote in this, as we did when LexTran needed more tax money? And why put this on a block where active and vital businesses are thriving? Why not knock down Lexington Mall and build it there?

Country music artist Kenny Chesney was second only to The Police in box office concert sales last year, yet he picked The Dame as one of the venues on his warmup club tour. If an act of that commercial significance wants to play at this club, then it must be doing something right.

I have met many legendary acts in the past few years, and I didn't have to travel outside Lexington to see them. Why give my money to businesses in Louisville and Cincinnati?

We all know that as soon as the 2010 Alltech FEI World Equestrian Games end, the hotel will sit vacant, and the shops will end up like Festival Market, which was another great idea from the Webbs.

Why help the Webbs line their pockets? We should escort them out of town.

Kevin Martinez
Lexington

USE EXISTING BUILDINGS

As a Lexingtonian, I have quietly watched the beauty of downtown wrecked, razed and bulldozed over the years.

I still remember shopping at Stewart's, Lowenthal's, Embry's, Wenniker's, Wolf Wile, Hymson's and Town and Country. I remember lunching in the Phoenix Hotel dining room or sitting at the counter of Woolworth's with my grandmother on Saturday afternoons. There were people on the streets visiting and shopping.

I also remember the urban blight during the 1980s and how downtown dried up thanks, in part, to The Webb Cos. and its debacles.

I strongly encourage the city to slow down and think about the block known as Morton's Row that houses The Dame. I would like to see the CentrePointe project scale back and incorporate the historically significant buildings there.

Leslie Beatty

Lexington

[gt7834a]

What ever Merlene Davis says I generally think the exact opposite Why would we want to send potential tourists out to the horse park when we can have them downtown? Just because one is a bad idea(a 4 star in the horse park) doesn't mean the other is a bad idea. Even the manager of the Griffin Gate said that this hotel would not be competing with the GG and that he thought it was a good idea.
As the to the office, you obviously have not looked around downtown for office. There are a lot of for rent signs but there is almost no Class A office space available and what little there is is in the 1000-2000 SF and less range. If you have a large firm there is no where to go. Out of all of it I have the most faith in the office portion.

People crack me up.'why not knock down Lexington Mall and build it there' Well because the owners won't sell it and you can't build more than 2 stories in the B-1 zone, but other than that a great idea! It is really hard to get downtown property of any size. People just do not want to sell it plus there is not nearly as much of it as people like to think. The only major ones are around Rupp to the South and West and the city has plans for those. Where else is there? There are a couple of decent sized lots on Short, neither are huge. One is owned by a trust that won't and doesn't need to sell and the other is owned by Lollis who tries to tear down everything he ever buys and won't sell anything. I tried to buy both of them and could not even get a price and both said they were not interested in selling. After that there is? I don't know of anything else. The transit center is suppose to happen but keeps getting held up and frankly other than that I don't know of anthing that is bigger than 1/5 of an acre.

I understand peoples concern but don't act like there are bunch of other places and that the developers are just trying to ruin the Dame.

[seicer]

I look at the Horse Park as another state park. Tourism. I'm against the four-star hotel at the Horse Park but I'm open for one in the downtown, and with the cost escalations at the Horse Park hotel proposal, it may not even pass. A hotel at the Horse Park would compete directly with the Griffin Gate -- two suburban/rural hotels catering to the same clientèle. A downtown hotel caters to a totally different crowd.

As for the Lexington Mall property, that is just one mess by Saul.

Lollis... what properties does he own specifically?

[gt7834a]

He owns the old Herald Leader site on Short and Market Street. It is odd shaped and goes back to Church and over to Upper behind those office buildings. He also owns the corner next to Bang on Limestone and Short. He tried to tear down the building that the new Irish pub is going into but thankfully the city would not let him. He owns several other buildings downtown also. I was kind of kidding about him tearing everything down, but he is certainly not a historic preservationist.
I tried to buy Lexington Mall also and could not even get a returned call. Those people are nuts. That is a super prime piece of land that they just flat refuse to do anything with for some reason. I do not understand it at all. It is smaller but it should be a better mall than Fayette since it is so close to the weathy part of town. That failed because for some reason they wanted it to fail. Strangest thing I have ever seen.

I think that the Horse Park and Griffin Gate will definitely compete for customers. I just don't see the need for a 4 start hotel at the Horse Park. That is not the kind of people that are going to want to stay way out there. You might be able to make a small luxury spa/Inn type place work with 20-30 rooms but there is no way there are 150+ people that can/will pay $200 a night to stay in the Horse Park. I do think those people will want to stay downtown and go to restraurants, events at Rupp, conventions, do business, etc. Much bigger clientel group downtown than in the middle of nowhere.

I hope the Dame can stay downtown but I think people are over stating things a bit to say that if you get rid of this block you are getting rid of all the downtown entertainment. The Dame is certainly a draw but there will still be a bunch of bars dowtown and several with live music. Not nearly the size nor the quality of bands but I think everyone is speaking with a bit of hyperboli. Busters and Mia's can easily be moved, the Dame is the tough one. I just don't know of anything in the immediate area that is big enough.

[seicer]

Ah. That a$$hole. I remembered hearing about his whines about the Irish Pub location (now I know where it's going to be at!). If I recall, his rants went about this: "I own the location, and it's in severe disrepair." (Due to his lack of upkeep and maintenance.) "Since I own it, I want to demolish it." Sorry, doesn't work that way, even if you own it. Thankfully, he wasn't allowed to go forward with his plans.

What are the plans for The Bang? I know that they were discussing a new facade for the building, but no work has started.

[gt7834a]

I am afraid they may think they have already put a new facade on it They did a little bit of work on it about a year ago. I hope they do something, it is quite the eye sore currently.

[Dale]

I've never seen the likes of SSC forumers campaigning against a skyscraper. Granted, it's your city.

[seicer]

It's a hot button issue. What's at stake is the loss of 100-year-old structures, a wildly popular entertainment venue, and two hometown establishments. We've already seen the loss of two establishments already from the block over the past two months. Some do not trust the Webb Cos. Some do not trust the Rosenberg's who own the block. Others are just distrustful of developers in general. Many do not want to see 1/3 of Phoenix Park go. Everyone want to see infill go in on that block, but after seeing massive tear-downs from the 1960s to the 1990s, many are resentful against anything that is going to substantially change the character of the downtown.

[cartomanlex]

Originally Posted by seicer

It's a hot button issue. What's at stake is the loss of 100-year-old structures, a wildly popular entertainment venue, and two hometown establishments. We've already seen the loss of two establishments already from the block over the past two months. Some do not trust the Webb Cos. Some do not trust the Rosenberg's who own the block. Others are just distrustful of developers in general. Many do not want to see 1/3 of Phoenix Park go. Everyone want to see infill go in on that block, but after seeing massive tear-downs from the 1960s to the 1990s, many are resentful against anything that is going to substantially change the character of the downtown.

The character of downtown needs to change substantially. The downtown area needs to have more residential. The delays in the Blackhorse project, the Mark Acre project, Shelburne Plaza project, The Transit Center project, the 500's on Main project, the unnamed million dollar condos at 2nd and Mill St. only exacerbate the need for substantial change.

You seem to be in favor of all these other projects but rail incessantly about CenterPointe and the loss of the Dame. It confuses me.

[TheDame]

Originally Posted by cartomanlex

The character of downtown needs to change substantially. The downtown area needs to have more residential. The delays in the Blackhorse project, the Mark Acre project, Shelburne Plaza project, The Transit Center project, the 500's on Main project, the unnamed million dollar condos at 2nd and Mill St. only exacerbate the need for substantial change.

You seem to be in favor of all these other projects but rail incessantly about CenterPointe and the loss of the Dame. It confuses me.

I'm in favor of all the other projects as well. The Dame/Rosenberg/Woolworth block in question is a unique situation and many feel that we should not hastily jump into something that can never be reversed. There are literally thousands of people in Lexington that feel the same way.

[seicer]

Why am I against Centrepoint cartomanlex? Well, if you would read my general complaints that I've repeated 100x previously, I wouldn't have the need to keep repeating myself. I'm all for downtown development, but in good taste. Just because I support 500's on the Main, Main and Rose, etc., doesn't mean that I must support Centrepoint on the basis that all downtown growth is good. I supported Main and Rose, for instance, because it was an appropriately scaled development (although I would have liked to see the original 7 story structure there) that added a nice streetscape (no mall) on what was a barren surface lot. Mark Lofts I was indifferent about, and still am, as it replaced what was once a vibrant and rather nice looking church. And so forth.

Thanks for the additional mischaracterizations again. I'm not going to explain why I dislike Centrepointe in relation to other development projects. It's comparing apples to oranges.

Now can we get off of your continual rants against those who ... you know, dislike Centrepointe for whatever reason? You do not need to question or persist every user who pops in here with an opposing opinion.

[TheDame]

I might also add that I didn't just pop up on this board. I've been stating my opinion about this and other issues on this forum since 2006.