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Old March 21st, 2008, 01:40 AM   #21
micro
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Metro on the smallest island: seems to be the monorail in Naha (Okinawa, Japan).
Okinawa has an area of 2,271.30 kmē while Mallorca, second smallest island with a metro (Palma) has 3,640.11 kmē, according to Wikipedia.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 06:32 AM   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
Metro on the smallest island: seems to be the monorail in Naha (Okinawa, Japan).
Okinawa has an area of 2,271.30 kmē while Mallorca, second smallest island with a metro (Palma) has 3,640.11 kmē, according to Wikipedia.
Manhattan (57 kmē) would beg to differ. You also have some that are even smaller: Roosevelt Island in NYC, which does have a subway stop, and it looks like the Helsinki, Paris, and Stockholm metros go through some pretty small islands as well.

Even if we specify "without a connection to the mainland," there are a few planned or under construction that may overtake this: Honolulu (on 1,536 kmē Oahu) and 132.55 kmē Xiamen - though I believe there are plans to link Xiamen's metro to the mainland.

EDIT: Even if we do specify "without a connection to the mainland," there is an existing metro confined to an island smaller than Okinawa, Palma, or even Oahu: Singapore, at 544 kmē.

Last edited by Codfish; March 21st, 2008 at 06:40 AM.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 07:28 AM   #23
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Any pics of the very real wide subways? I've often wondered what the widest subways looked like.
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Old March 21st, 2008, 07:36 AM   #24
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codfish View Post
Manhattan (57 kmē) would beg to differ. You also have some that are even smaller: Roosevelt Island in NYC, which does have a subway stop, and it looks like the Helsinki, Paris, and Stockholm metros go through some pretty small islands as well.

Even if we specify "without a connection to the mainland," there are a few planned or under construction that may overtake this: Honolulu (on 1,536 kmē Oahu) and 132.55 kmē Xiamen - though I believe there are plans to link Xiamen's metro to the mainland.

EDIT: Even if we do specify "without a connection to the mainland," there is an existing metro confined to an island smaller than Okinawa, Palma, or even Oahu: Singapore, at 544 kmē.
Macau is planning some sort of light metro, with the first phase to be built by 2012. The entire territory has an area less than 30 km^2 (and it consists of one island and one peninsula linked to the Chinese mainland by a causeway).

So in 4 years we can say Macau has the metro on the smallest island.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 12:41 AM   #25
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codfish View Post
Manhattan (57 kmē) would beg to differ. You also have some that are even smaller: Roosevelt Island in NYC, which does have a subway stop, and it looks like the Helsinki, Paris, and Stockholm metros go through some pretty small islands as well.

Even if we specify "without a connection to the mainland," there are a few planned or under construction that may overtake this: Honolulu (on 1,536 kmē Oahu) and 132.55 kmē Xiamen - though I believe there are plans to link Xiamen's metro to the mainland.

EDIT: Even if we do specify "without a connection to the mainland," there is an existing metro confined to an island smaller than Okinawa, Palma, or even Oahu: Singapore, at 544 kmē.
Hmmm, I was thinking about metro systems in cities on islands, not stations on islands within cities (those are countless). But nevertheless: how could I forget about Singapore?? Maybe because it is so close to mainland Malaysia. Singapore MRT of course is by far the largest metro system on the smallest island (until Macau takes over).

Do you agree if I change my statement?:
Smallest island with its own metro system: Singapore (704.0 kmē [Wikipedia]; Singapore MRT).
Smallest offshore island with its own metro system: Okinawa, Japan (2,271.30 kmē [Wikipedia]; Naha monorail).
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 01:41 AM   #26
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Here is a superlative: As far as I know, there have been no fatalities attributed to any automated, driverless metros due to system failures or human error. I'm excluding things like suicide, sabotage, fatal accidents during construction etc.

The question then is, of all the automated systems in the world and over the years since they have existed, how many passenger trips have been made on them? It would be an impressive number; 0 fatal accidents in X billion trips, possibly THE safest mode of transport.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 02:09 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ssiguy2 View Post
Any pics of the very real wide subways? I've often wondered what the widest subways looked like.
Oslo is really wide, not by gauge but by train width. One of the older train types has two aisles between the seats like an aircraft. I was highly impressed and took a photo but cannot find it. So that makes another superlative:

Highest number of aisles between seats in metro trains: Oslo (two, in older train type)
(as far as I know)


Photo from urbanrail.net

Last edited by micro; March 22nd, 2008 at 02:17 AM.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by micro View Post
Do you agree if I change my statement?:
Smallest island with its own metro system: Singapore (704.0 kmē [Wikipedia]; Singapore MRT).
Smallest offshore island with its own metro system: Okinawa, Japan (2,271.30 kmē [Wikipedia]; Naha monorail).
Just to be nitpicky : I believe the 704 number includes Singapore's numerous offshore islands. (The article specifically mentions that it grew so big because smaller islands were merged together into new, bigger islands, like Jurong Island.) The main island is much smaller. Columbia Encyclopedia gives the 544 figure, but since it says the entire country is only 625, who knows what that means. Every site seems to say something different. Any Singaporeans out there who know for sure?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:39 PM   #29
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codfish View Post
Just to be nitpicky : I believe the 704 number includes Singapore's numerous offshore islands. (The article specifically mentions that it grew so big because smaller islands were merged together into new, bigger islands, like Jurong Island.) The main island is much smaller. Columbia Encyclopedia gives the 544 figure, but since it says the entire country is only 625, who knows what that means. Every site seems to say something different. Any Singaporeans out there who know for sure?
I hung out with a Singaporean for many years, and the figure 675 was current then, although a lot of dredging south of Jurong was reclaiming new land out of the sea ...
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 06:54 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by lordcreso View Post
Massive transport railway systems which operate in the big cities in order to connect the differentes areas of that main city and the surroundings, normally underground. The rate "number of stations/kilometers of line" is lower than 1.
I presume you mean "mass" transport systems ... with more (you seem to imply less?) than 1 station per kilometre of route-mileage.

Certainly Melbourne's transit system is mostly at or above ground: so is Singapore's (and, I think, Chicago's). As for the stations/km test, well, Melbourne with over 200 stations & over 200km of route-mileage would just about work out at that: but where did this standard come from anyway?
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 07:21 PM   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codfish View Post
Just to be nitpicky : I believe the 704 number includes Singapore's numerous offshore islands. (The article specifically mentions that it grew so big because smaller islands were merged together into new, bigger islands, like Jurong Island.) The main island is much smaller. Columbia Encyclopedia gives the 544 figure, but since it says the entire country is only 625, who knows what that means. Every site seems to say something different. Any Singaporeans out there who know for sure?
Singapore's total land area hovers at slightly over 700 square km but the main island (City of Singapore) is just over 600 square km. Our metro equivalent, the Mass Rapid Transit (MRT) system has 3 lines measuring 120km in total length and is used by over 1.5 million people a day. The city is currently feverishingly building new lines and extensions. Though the pace of expansion is not as stunning as metros is Shanghai and Beijing, it is still appaudable since Singapore's population is just 4.6 million and will rise to 6.5 million in 2020. The network will double in length by then and 4.6 million people are expected to use it daily, comparable to metros in Paris and New York.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 09:17 PM   #32
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There are some that assert that Melbourne has no right to be here at all,

but Melbourne's underground track is entirely quadruplicated!
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 09:54 PM   #33
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
I presume you mean "mass" transport systems ... with more (you seem to imply less?) than 1 station per kilometre of route-mileage.

Certainly Melbourne's transit system is mostly at or above ground: so is Singapore's (and, I think, Chicago's). As for the stations/km test, well, Melbourne with over 200 stations & over 200km of route-mileage would just about work out at that: but where did this standard come from anyway?
Being Australian myself, I would love to be able to say we have metro systems down there. But, to be honest they just don't count to me as such. Now, I don't know about any specific criteria, but just riding on them they feel like the suburban hybrids found in most of Europe that are supplementary to metro systems. These also usually have underground sections in the city.

It is a general consensus that Australia's networks are either suburban or hybrid. It's not set down in law mind you, but if you go to a myriad of dedicated rail sites they would be classified not as proper metro's such as www.urbanrail.net

As far as suburban hybrids go, they are wonderful systems.
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Old March 22nd, 2008, 10:13 PM   #34
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I accept what you say, Justme, but the problem of definition or classification is one which should be constantly reviewed, rather than, say left to urbanrail.net, which I think I found prior to SSC, and I note, has since dropped both Sydney & Melbourne (and "Oceania" in general) since they don't have "metro" systems.

Your mention of "suburban hybrid" systems further complicates the issue. I hadn't heard of it before. I haven't googled this yet, but, I will be interested to see which systems fall into this category. Notably, while such systems may supplement metro systems in sundry European cities, this isn't the case here, since they also perform the core services (efficiently or otherwise) that the Metros perform in Europe. I'm going bush-walking.

Last edited by Yardmaster; March 22nd, 2008 at 10:20 PM.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 02:58 AM   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Codfish View Post
Manhattan (57 kmē) would beg to differ. You also have some that are even smaller: Roosevelt Island in NYC, which does have a subway stop, and it looks like the Helsinki, Paris, and Stockholm metros go through some pretty small islands as well.

Even if we specify "without a connection to the mainland," there are a few planned or under construction that may overtake this: Honolulu (on 1,536 kmē Oahu) and 132.55 kmē Xiamen - though I believe there are plans to link Xiamen's metro to the mainland.

EDIT: Even if we do specify "without a connection to the mainland," there is an existing metro confined to an island smaller than Okinawa, Palma, or even Oahu: Singapore, at 544 kmē.
Gamla Stan (situated on the homonymous island / old town), 0,36 km2.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 06:27 AM   #36
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First deep level railway: City & South London Railway, 1890.
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Old March 23rd, 2008, 02:45 PM   #37
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Justme View Post
Being Australian myself, I would love to be able to say we have metro systems down there. But, to be honest they just don't count to me as such. Now, I don't know about any specific criteria, but just riding on them they feel like the suburban hybrids found in most of Europe that are supplementary to metro systems. These also usually have underground sections in the city.

It is a general consensus that Australia's networks are either suburban or hybrid. It's not set down in law mind you, but if you go to a myriad of dedicated rail sites they would be classified not as proper metro's such as www.urbanrail.net

As far as suburban hybrids go, they are wonderful systems.
Three or four lines of London Underground qualify for such a suburban hybrid as well. Nonetheless they are considered to be metro lines. A contradiction quite obviously.
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Old March 24th, 2008, 01:49 AM   #38
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Quote:
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First deep level railway: City & South London Railway, 1890.
Doesn't this depend on how you define 'deep'?
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Old March 24th, 2008, 04:21 AM   #39
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Doesn't this depend on how you define 'deep'?
"deep level" usually refers to tunnels built with boring machines... It doesn't really matter how deep the actual tunnel is!
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Old March 24th, 2008, 05:38 AM   #40
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OK, my English can always use a little tweak. But let's slightly rephrase the statement:
First metro stretch dug with a tunnel boring machine: London (Northern Line - Bank branch, 1890, then called City & South London Railway).
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