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Old April 13th, 2008, 04:14 PM   #101
Tubeman
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Yardmaster View Post
Isn't the Glasgow system unique for:
  • running completely underground ... without depots?
  • smallest city loop?
  • exclusively underground sytem with smallest original gauge (4 foot)?
  • only system with no normally operational switches/points ?
Also, has anywhere got a smaller loading gauge than the Glasgow Subway? It's smaller than the standard London Tube bore, and that's saying something.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 01:57 AM   #102
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Added:

-Smallest circle line: Glasgow
-Only metro system that exclusively runs with 1 circle line: Glasgow
-Smallest loading gauge: Glasgow
-Smallest loading gauge for a standard gauge: London
-First fully-automated rapid existing transit system: Victoria Line, London, 1968
-First fully-automated rapid unmanned transit system: Osaka and Kobe, 1981

Changed:
-Widest gauge: New Delhi 1676 mm

Glasgow has a maintenance depot at Broomloan Road above the ground. There are hardly any completely underground systems, I have the feeling that 4 different categories for underground systems with different gauges (smallest, largest, with depots, no depots) is too much.

I don't know about Lyon, when is it a "wide driverless metro"?
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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:00 AM   #103
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Only subway with 'pushers': Tokyo
You mean the only underground with employed pushers.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 03:01 AM   #104
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That is why it is placed between ' '.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 04:08 AM   #105
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post

I don't know about Lyon, when is it a "wide driverless metro"?
Sorry, I forget to put the date : 1992.
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Old April 14th, 2008, 09:39 AM   #106
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Quote:
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Added:

-Smallest circle line: Glasgow
Not true, Chicago, Sydney and some others are smaller, see here
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Old April 14th, 2008, 04:54 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
Added:

-First fully-automated rapid existing transit system: Victoria Line, London, 1968
Line 11 in Paris was automated between 1965 and 1967 (MP55 rolling stock), quiclky followed by line 1 and line 4 (MP59 rollinge stock).
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Old April 15th, 2008, 12:41 AM   #108
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Line 11 in Paris was automated between 1965 and 1967 (MP55 rolling stock), quiclky followed by line 1 and line 4 (MP59 rollinge stock).
The Woodford-Hainault section of the Central Line operated ATO between 1964 and 1986, initially as a testing ground for the Victoria Line ATO technology and subsequently for other trials such as fully driverless trains in 1978.

Is this the earliest example of a significant section of a metro line running ATO in passenger service?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 01:05 AM   #109
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The earlier than I know was in the early 1950's
"Voie des Fêtes" (link between the line 3bis and 7bis) was used by rubber tired rolling stock with automatic system in 1951 - 1952 as a test with passengers.

This is the rolling stock MP 51
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Old April 15th, 2008, 02:14 AM   #110
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Quote:
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The Woodford-Hainault section of the Central Line operated ATO between 1964 and 1986, initially as a testing ground for the Victoria Line ATO technology and subsequently for other trials such as fully driverless trains in 1978.

Is this the earliest example of a significant section of a metro line running ATO in passenger service?
Didn't the District line operate with ATO on a short section before the Central line as well?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 03:25 AM   #111
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I thought that there was someone in the cabin that had to give permission to take off from each station?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 03:53 AM   #112
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Yes thers is... automatic or ATO lines are mostly not driverless.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 05:29 AM   #113
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But for example the Expo Express, Montreal, 1967 was able to take off without somebody in it, the system in Paris simply couldn't even if the doors were closed.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 06:38 AM   #114
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What about the highest Metro system? I think it might be Mexico City at 2240 meters (7349 feet) above sea level.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 01:14 PM   #115
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Quote:
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But for example the Expo Express, Montreal, 1967 was able to take off without somebody in it, the system in Paris simply couldn't even if the doors were closed.
The Victoria line could too, I think it's why the 1967 Stock had no doors leading onto the platform from the cab, the logic was that a train operator could get out a train could leave without him/her! The technology for a driverless system was there, but they thought passengers weren't ready for it...
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Old April 15th, 2008, 03:27 PM   #116
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I believe that the record for the first deep level underground system belongs to the Mersey Railway between Liverpool and Birkenhead that was the first system built in Britain (at least) that used lift access to its stations and was opened in 1886. The line was extended to Liverpool Central shortly afterwards using a tunnel boring machine designed by Captain Beaumont (of Channel Tunnel fame).

The Mersey Railway was also the first British steam railway to be converted from steam to electric operation (1903) and probably the first underground railway in the world to be so converted.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 10:38 PM   #117
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Wuppeltje View Post
Made a list with as much as I could find in this thread.

Only:

Only two metro cities that have the same name: Valencia in Spain and Valencia in Venezuela.
Some "Station name" Trivia:

Which stations names are duplicated or multiplicated, and which is the most common?
  • "Richmond" is a name that occurs on the London Met system; also on San Francisco's BART; and on both Sydney's Cityrail & Melbourne's Metrail, however, in the last two instances, the systems apparently don't qualify ... according to criteria I don't yet understand.

  • "Admiralty" ocurs in both Hong Kong & Singapore,
  • "King's Cross" in London & Sydney,
  • "Opera" in Paris & Budapest (although Paris gives the 'e' an acute)
  • "Jamaica" occurs in both NYC & Mexico City.

Here's where it gets interesting.

Many North-American cities are laid out on an almost undisturbed orthoganal grid, and the subway lines simply take the names of the streets where they cross.

In Toronto, for instance, we have:
  • Lawrence & Lawrence West;
  • Eglinton & Eglinton West; and
  • St Clair & St Clair West

Perhaps I am making the wrong inference here, since I don't have a road-map of Toronto ... the same metro line runs through all of these stations, so undoubtedly it would be confusing to have two stations having the same name.

Or would it? Let's go to Chicago.

The lines that run west from Chicago have several stations by the same name (according to the official map I have!); the same applies in the north. Some examples:
  • Central: 2
  • California: 2
  • Clinton: 2
  • Austin: 2
  • Oak Park: 2
  • Chicago:3
  • Cicero:3
  • Pulaski: 3
  • Western: 5 (and two of them on the blue line!)

I guess people are smarter over there; if I asked a taxi driver to take me to Western Metro Station the taxi driver would just say "where?"

New York City has at least two 116th St Stations: there are probably quite a few more duplicates.

There's a "Union Station" in Washington & Boston: it would be interesting to see how many "HautBahnhof"s we could find. Quite a few stations called "City Hall", "Museum", "Central" and "Rathaus": it would be interesting to see which took the brick.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 10:48 PM   #118
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Martin S View Post
I believe that the record for the first deep level underground system belongs to the Mersey Railway between Liverpool and Birkenhead that was the first system built in Britain (at least) that used lift access to its stations and was opened in 1886. The line was extended to Liverpool Central shortly afterwards using a tunnel boring machine designed by Captain Beaumont (of Channel Tunnel fame).

The Mersey Railway was also the first British steam railway to be converted from steam to electric operation (1903) and probably the first underground railway in the world to be so converted.
I can dispute both, even if the first is a bit dubious

The Tower Subway opened in 1870. It was a proper 'Tube' railway (the first) and inspired the City & South London Railway, but it was a single car on a single track hauled by cable so it could be debated whether it really counts.

Regarding conversion from steam to electric: the District Line between Earl's Court and High Street Kensington was experimentally electrified in May 1900 and a single electric unit plodded up and down, and as it has been electrified for passengers ever since I'd assert it counts. This prototype 4-rail system was later rolled out more widely, with the first full stretch being Acton Town (then Mill Hill Park) to Park Royal three years later on 23.06.03... what date did the Mersey railway get electrified?
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:02 PM   #119
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Didn't the District line operate with ATO on a short section before the Central line as well?
Yes, between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park Eastbound: test running 1962-63 then passenger service 1963-64... this is what prompted the entire section of the Central Line from Woodford to Hainault to be converted, which I regard as more definitive as the District trail only involved 1 motor unit conversion along a 1-stop section of track, whereas Woodford-Hainault involved the entire fleet of Cravens 1960 stock and a self-contained service.
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Old April 15th, 2008, 11:07 PM   #120
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Quote:
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Yes, between Stamford Brook and Ravenscourt Park Eastbound: test running 1962-63 then passenger service 1963-64... this is what prompted the entire section of the Central Line from Woodford to Hainault to be converted, which I regard as more definitive as the District trail only involved 1 motor unit conversion along a 1-stop section of track, whereas Woodford-Hainault involved the entire fleet of Cravens 1960 stock and a self-contained service.
So Paris was first then... The Victoria line is usually considered the "first full scale automatic railway" not so much the "first one to come up with the idea" I guess.

And the Thames Tunnel is deep level too, it wasn't intended for rail service from day one though.
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