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Old September 18th, 2008, 10:21 PM   #101
radi6404
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Itīs not about the surface, asphalt usually lasts long, I am sure the Struma motorway aspahlt will last 10 years with no pohtoles, so did the E-79 nationalroad aspahlt, 7 years for it aktually. I mean other things like the markings, the white concrete, the crashbarriers, the signs and so on. And I mean only cleaning important motorways/nationalraods not all roads. They could use very smooth metal on signs at least, there are such materials who are pretty much resistant to dirt and particles, they would be a bit more expensive but it would be worth it. I admire new roads which look like untouched, they look scary and amazing. A new building for example can never give such a deep impression since it is small, roads are long and if they look like untouched it gives a way deeper impression.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 12:28 AM   #102
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Signs are mostly shiny and clean here. Italian ones are particularly shiny.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 03:37 PM   #103
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Quote:
Originally Posted by radi6404 View Post
Itīs not about the surface, asphalt usually lasts long, I am sure the Struma motorway aspahlt will last 10 years with no pohtoles, so did the E-79 nationalroad aspahlt, 7 years for it aktually. I mean other things like the markings, the white concrete, the crashbarriers, the signs and so on. And I mean only cleaning important motorways/nationalraods not all roads. They could use very smooth metal on signs at least, there are such materials who are pretty much resistant to dirt and particles, they would be a bit more expensive but it would be worth it. I admire new roads which look like untouched, they look scary and amazing. A new building for example can never give such a deep impression since it is small, roads are long and if they look like untouched it gives a way deeper impression.
Asphalt does not last long compared to concrete. The actual lifetime depends mostly on weather and usage. In a low usage area with favorable conditions, I'm sure asphalt can last 10 years or more, but this is not the case with most highways. It also depends on what the exact surfacing is used. Some roads are paved with asphalt with a finer layer of asphalt or bitumen. This is not very durable and grinds down with time.

Signs ARE used with metals. They're usually constructed with certain standards, and incorporate retroreflective paint/tape. Yet, they have to be designed so that they're not too shiny (clearcoat finish, for example) to reduce the amount of light reflected, into the drivers' eyes, for example.

Again, how well signs hold up to the test of time depends on traffic, weather, and local conditions (industrial areas, for example). A high humidity, high traffic area will make dirt much more likely to stick onto signs.

As much as clean, pristine roads and shiny signs can give an impression, so too can a gritty, worn down road, it's just a different impression.

Finally, it all comes down to cost. Many, if not most, DOTs are having trouble enough keeping their roads in serviceable conditions. Roads are, in the end of the day, utilitarian and the most important thing is that they are cost effective. Furthermore, many considerations have to be given regarding local laws (design specifications) and consideration to drivers, as well as practicality.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #104
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You don't want to repave freeways in major cities all the time, something which is necessary with asphalt, and porous asphalt in particular. It's better to build concrete roads which last longer, say 20 - 25 years under heavy usage. (particularly truck traffic).

It's only feasible to pave all freeways in the Netherlands with Porous Asphalt because of the ever-lasting NIMBY's making other improvements possible, so they can divert money which was meant for widening/construction to maintenance. They sometimes have to repave a freeway within 7 years.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 03:43 PM   #105
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Asphalt can last more than 10 years without potholes and so on. The E-79 nationalraod aspahlt italian type in Bulgaria from the Greek border to Dupnica last 7 years without any pothole on the whole surface. The last winter was very harsh and very few small potholes appeared only near bridges but that was all. Some 20 km sections of that asphalt didnīt get any potholes at all and are as smoth as very new roads so you are plainwrong. Asphalt can last 10 years without potholes even with very heavy tracktrafic on it and harsh summer/winter conditions. the asphalt is still very black altough heavy road and track truffic go there and has no potholes nor does it have any tiny bumps so itīs bullshit that asphalt doesnīt last long and besides that asphalt looks way better than ugly concrete and is way more confortable to drive on.

The other things age faster on raods usually, markings fade out fast, signs, crashbariers, white concrete and so on wear out within few years.

http://img144.imageshack.us/img144/9018/1010066xc8.jpg

The asphalt here is mroe than 7 years old and has no potholes there for 40 km until the new E-79 asphalt starts after Dupnica. There is even older asphalt from Blagoevgrad to Dupnica some 20 years, you know the stony asphalt with small stones in it and it has no potholes at all or bumps. concrete might last 10 years longer but is not wroth it thatīs why Austria finally began to asphalt their motorways.

And on concrete appear cracks in winter, asphalt however is flexible and it is mroe expensive to fix a concrete road than a asphalt road. Concrete is the most unconfortable surface to drive on ever, even the roughest Bulgarian stony asphalt is way more confortable than the best concrete since itīs soft, not hard as stone.
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Last edited by radi6404; September 19th, 2008 at 04:04 PM.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 06:21 PM   #106
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Because they die after being sick of hearing you complaing so much about them.
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Old September 19th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #107
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
You don't want to repave freeways in major cities all the time, something which is necessary with asphalt, and porous asphalt in particular. It's better to build concrete roads which last longer, say 20 - 25 years under heavy usage. (particularly truck traffic).

It's only feasible to pave all freeways in the Netherlands with Porous Asphalt because of the ever-lasting NIMBY's making other improvements possible, so they can divert money which was meant for widening/construction to maintenance. They sometimes have to repave a freeway within 7 years.
Quote:
Originally Posted by radi6404 View Post
you are plainwrong.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 06:58 PM   #108
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Even and soft roads

Today I went from Blagoevgrad to Bansko and drove on the two years old road simitli Bansko, which has bad asphalt at some places but at some very good, the road overall is very soft and very very even which I love very much, only that thereīs some relief at some places from the tracktraffic but at some places it doesnīt have such relief, only at the newest asphalt which got made too fast and by kids. Anyway I noticed the road is very soft so it feels light, it feels like you are not touching the ground but gliding and it is also very even. When you look at the houses and notice how even the road stays you think you are in a train and even more even. I want to know which countries have such roads because I quite like that. In Germany and Austria the asphalt is mostly very very hard and doesnīt feel like gliding at all, even new asphalt doesnīt feel like gliding except some softer asphalt in Bayern. I know that Hungary motorways are also very light and even, but I donīt know if nationalroads are also like that. Slovenia is also great, tell me some nationalroads or motorways in your countries which are soft and even if you have some at all

Discuss

Edit:
And notice, itīs not important if the asphalt is so smooth that it also feels slippery, itīs better when the asphalt is a bit rough to have great grip, and itīs way more important that the road is even and doesnīt go up and down to have a great roadexperience.

Last edited by Radish2; December 28th, 2008 at 07:07 PM.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 08:41 PM   #109
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Noone answers?

You are not interested in smooth roads, so you donīt care if a road is smooth or has potholes, you only care how big the network is and in which languaces the signs are. You are anything but road fans.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #110
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish2 View Post
Noone answers?

You are not interested in smooth roads, so you donīt care if a road is smooth or has potholes, you only care how big the network is and in which languaces the signs are. You are anything but road fans.
You're absolutely right Radi. There's nothing left to say. Can this thread be closed now?
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Old December 28th, 2008, 10:59 PM   #111
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You're absolutely right Radi. There's nothing left to say. Can this thread be closed now?
When thereīs one thing I apsolutely hate is when people laugh about other peoples interests, so why are you spamming my thread you ****, you think that I have to like what all other people like, you are just some narrowminded ship who follow the standarts of all other people and donīt tolerate people who have some different interests, just donīt piss me off.
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Old December 28th, 2008, 11:03 PM   #112
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Radi, you're a fetishist!
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Old December 29th, 2008, 12:34 AM   #113
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Radi, you're a fetishist!
Yes, do you have a problem with that? I like to be a fetishist and to live my life like I want it and to enjoy things like driving on smooth even roads.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:01 AM   #114
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Radish2 View Post
When thereīs one thing I apsolutely hate is when people laugh about other peoples interests, so why are you spamming my thread you ****, you think that I have to like what all other people like, you are just some narrowminded ship who follow the standarts of all other people and donīt tolerate people who have some different interests, just donīt piss me off.
maybe we don't understand what term "soft road" should mean. i'm not sure that density of asphalt has many varieties from usual cca 700 kg/m3, and i doubt that there is some measure which describes softness better than density itself. maybe we could calculate deformations made by iron ball with set radius droped from set height, that could give us right answer. poor balls in Germany and Austria if Radi is speaking the truth!
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:53 AM   #115
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Quote:
Originally Posted by x-type View Post
maybe we don't understand what term "soft road" should mean. i'm not sure that density of asphalt has many varieties from usual cca 700 kg/m3, and i doubt that there is some measure which describes softness better than density itself. maybe we could calculate deformations made by iron ball with set radius droped from set height, that could give us right answer. poor balls in Germany and Austria if Radi is speaking the truth!
I think itīs more the stuff under the asphalt which make the road feel light or hard like in Germany. You think all types of asphalt have the same density, but asphalts are made of different material I think, in Germany they use lots of the rubberlike stuff, in other countries the asphatl probably contains more stones than in Germany, I donīt know what makes the asphalt feel soft or hard. But if you drive on Serbia for example and go to Hungary on the M5 you will feel that the M5 motorway feels softer than the Serbian nationalroad.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:37 PM   #116
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Ok as you all concluded you donīt care if a road is smooth or bumpy and has holes this thread might be closed. Iīve never seen people who donīt want to talk about good roads, but I guess you all have shitty roads so why am I womdering.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:53 PM   #117
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The problem is we haven't driven on Struma, so we don't know what a good road is.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 01:54 PM   #118
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The problem is we haven't driven on Struma, so we don't know what a good road is.
No, Struma isnīt the only good motorway, Hungaryīs M5 is a good feeling motorway too but I guess some donīt have the sence to notice the difference between the soft M5 motorway and Austrias concrete motorways.
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Old December 29th, 2008, 08:14 PM   #119
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Lots of motorways in Portugal, the paid ones, are of really high quality....paved all the time. The smaller, older roads...not so much, hehe.
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Old December 30th, 2008, 07:57 AM   #120
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I know that Hungary motorways are also very light and even, but I donīt know if nationalroads are also like that.
national roads are scrap. stay on motorways in hungary...
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