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Old October 10th, 2014, 03:01 AM   #201
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What defines a second city? Is it as simple as population? They must be a way to settle what the 2nd city is by facts.

In terms of population if wiki is to be believed:
Manchester City 502,900
Greater Manchester Urban Area 2,553,379

Birmingham City 1,092,330
West Midlands Urban Area 2,440,986

Ok that don't settle anything does it
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Old October 10th, 2014, 07:12 AM   #202
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Originally Posted by VDB View Post
Manchester comes 43rd for world property investment!

At 124% growth we've also seen the 3rd largest increase in property investment in the world! After Dubai and Beijing, not bad!

This is great thanks for the information, but could you please provide a link to the report?
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Old October 10th, 2014, 12:19 PM   #203
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Originally Posted by CHIsentinel View Post
This is great thanks for the information, but could you please provide a link to the report?
http://www.cushmanwakefield.pl/en-gb...h-cities-2014/

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Old October 10th, 2014, 12:40 PM   #204
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Quote:
Originally Posted by JamieUK View Post
What defines a second city? Is it as simple as population? They must be a way to settle what the 2nd city is by facts.

In terms of population if wiki is to be believed:
Manchester City 502,900
Greater Manchester Urban Area 2,553,379

Birmingham City 1,092,330
West Midlands Urban Area 2,440,986

Ok that don't settle anything does it
Local authority boundaries in the UK are very misleading. For instance, Manchester's local authority boundary ends a 5 minute walk from the Town Hall, where Salford begins. However for all intents and purposes, Salford is "in Manchester" and many Salfordians consider themselves, in fact, Mancunian. I myself am from Salford.

This is a debate frequently had on the forums between people from Birmingham trying to claim that their city is "double the size of Manchester", and people from Manchester trying to rebut the claim by making people see the true ridiculousness of Manchester's boundaries.

For instance, this here is an ariel photograph of Manchester:





However, they're no less than three local authorities in this image.

# The area around the peninsula on the other side of the water from where this picture was taken is Salford.

# In the distance, you can see the towers in Manchester city centre - that of course comes under Manchester's local authority

# And the picture itself was taken above Trafford local authority.


However to the untrained eye it's all one city, and the people who live here, work here and visit here treat it as one city. It is, by all intents and purposes, one city - not three (although Manchester's Metro area is in fact split up into no less than 10 local authorities, which distorts its true size even more.


Here is Manchester's Metro Area (Greater Manchester). 2.7 million people live here, you can see how the ten boroughs split that up. Manchester City Centre can be found in the middle, just above that short blue stretch of motorway. Like any other city, the city centre is in fact right in the centre of the urban area - despite the fact that the rest of the city lies in a different local authority. Another absurdity of Manchester's local authority boundaries is that someone living in Wythenshawe, South Manchester - paying Manchester council tax, having their bins emptied by Manchester city council, lives further away from the city centre than someone living in Central Salford: despite the fact that the people living in Central Salford pay Salford council tax and have their bins emptied (twice a year, if ever) by Salford Council.






In addition, if you look at this rail map of Greater Manchester, you'll notice Manchester is the hub.

[IMG]http://i49.************/25ezafc.jpg[/IMG]




One way of categorising Manchester's true size is to look at Manchester's Urban Area - which is about 2.5 million people strong. However, Manchester's expansion is such that some of these people do in fact live in towns with quite strong independent identities: suburban towns with shopping districts and CBDs, if you like. While these towns are struggling to compete economically with Manchester, it's still worth noting that, as in Birmingham, loyalty towards the centre of the city wanes as you go further and further out towards the outer reaches of the urban area. As such, a more sure fire way of categorising "who lives in Manchester" is to number up the amount of people who live inside the M60 Orbital Motorway - which can be seen on the urban area photo above. People who live here are still split between 8 boroughs, but they live a maximum of 6 miles away from Central Manchester. In my experience at least, most people who live within the Orbital consider themselves Mancunian, many have what could be described as a Mancunian accent. Most people within this Orbital put "Manchester" on their address - and almost everyone within the Orbital have a Manchester post code. Taking this in mind, the number of people living within the Orbital, I have previously calculated, comes to about 1.3 million. Between 2001-2011 this area saw a 10% rise in population (Manchester local authority saw a 20% rise, the biggest rise of any other UK city). If we take the number of people living within the Orbital, this new population of "loyal Mancunians" if you like, makes Manchester the UK's second city by population.

However "second city" is not all about population. You also have to consider GDP (Birmingham's is higher), transport networks, growth: both in population and amount of investment etc, worldwide recognition, number of tourists, etc. Lets do a quick summary:

# GDP - Birmingham's is higher
# Transport networks - Manchester has the UK's third largest airport, more destinations from here than Heathrow. We have a Metro network about 6 times the size of Birmingham's, and still growing.
# Growth - Manchester's population saw the highest city increase in the UK between 2001-2011. Manchester's investment growth in 2013/14 was the fourth highest in the world: after Dubai, Beijing and Dublin.
# Worldwide Recognition - aside from Manchester United, Manchester is world renowned for music in a way that Birmingham just isn't.
# Number of tourists - Manchester sees the third highest amount of tourists in the UK, after London and Edinburgh. It's disputed what they're here for, but regardless our hotels are consistently full.
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Last edited by VDB; October 10th, 2014 at 12:46 PM.
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Old October 10th, 2014, 03:02 PM   #205
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Approved!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by VDB View Post
[IMG]http://i58.************/2cpe39e.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i57.************/fkz82c.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i59.************/30bjqdx.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i57.************/2vtxr85.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 10th, 2014, 07:12 PM   #206
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Devolution for Manchester

Manchester will be the first regional city to receive powers, including 1bn pounds from the Treasury for things like housing and transport.

http://www.thetimes.co.uk/tto/news/p...cle4232293.ece

Quote:
Devolved powers for northern cities

Billions of pounds and greater powers are to be devolved to city regions across England in response to the Scottish referendum, under measures to be unveiled next week.

Greg Clark, the cities minister, will set out the next phase of devolving power from Whitehall to northern cities such as Manchester, Liverpool and Leeds, as he calls on industry leaders to invest in order to help drive up economic growth. He will also revive the idea of directly elected mayors.

Some £12 billion is to be allocated over the next five years to help to boost local economies across the regions, mainly for housing and transport. Further measures are likely to be announced by George Osborne, the chancellor of the exchequer, in the autumn statement.

[...]

Mr Clark and the chancellor are working closely with city regions, such as Manchester, and are keen to give them more influence. Manchester city council has joined forces with nine other districts in the area and pooled resources for housing, regeneration and planning, giving them more clout.

“Manchester will be just the first and this will roll out to other cities,” Mr Clark told Property Week magazine. “Any city that can demonstrate the ambition to make more of its revenues than the Treasury can will get the financial support and spending powers that it needs to make a real difference.

“It is our belief those who live and work in our great cities know what money should be spent on better than anyone else, and we’re giving them the powers to do just that.”

Six other metropolitan authorities are currently in talks with the Treasury to agree their own financial settlements, including Birmingham, Bristol, Tyneside, Leeds and Liverpool.



Quote:
The government is set to take its first major step in devolving powers from Westminster to the English regions next week, with the announcement it is handing spending powers worth billions of pounds to a swathe of new metropolitan super-authorities.

Property Week can reveal that cities minister Greg Clark will claim at next week’s MIPIM UK conference that the new deal for the regions is a potential bonanza for property firms.

The first area to receive the new powers is expected to be Greater Manchester, which through the Greater Manchester City Region will benefit from a £1bn-plus agreement with the Treasury. This will enable it to retain 100% of the uplift from business rates revenue, as well as revenues gained from property development and investment.

Prime minister David Cameron is giving his full backing to Clark’s plans, and believes they will replicate in the regions what the government-backed development of London’s Docklands did for the East End in the 1980s.

Cameron said: “For the first time ever, housing infrastructure and other funding is being brought together in a single pot, and put directly into the hands of local authorities and businesses to spend the way they know best.”

At least six other metropolitan authorities are currently beginning talks with the Treasury to agree their own financial settlement. Birmingham and Bristol are setting up authorities, alongside a North East group, a Sheffield-based group, a Leeds-based group and a Merseyside group.

The government is also planning a raft of new city mayoral elections outside London.

The changes will give cities control over billions of pounds of revenue that is currently paid into Treasury coffers, linking up with the government’s existing City Deals initiative and allowing them to retain cash for local priorities.

Speaking exclusively to Property Week Clark said: “Manchester will be just the first, and this will roll out to other cities. Our cities are effectively nationalised at the moment. This new economic deal ensures we set our cities free to make their own decisions.”

During his speech to MIPIM UK Clark is also expected to announce multi-billion pound projects for 150 new roads, 150 new housing developments and 20 new rail stations across England, as well as revealing more about the latest regeneration projects connected to the development of the High Speed 2 rail project.
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Old October 10th, 2014, 09:22 PM   #207
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Eastern promise pays off: House prices rocket by up to 480 per cent as east Manchester competes with the leafy suburbs as city's 'great place to live'

House prices in East Manchester have risen 480%. 100,000 pounds is still a low amount to pay for an apartment compared to the Manchester average, but this type of progress is welcome (as long as wages in the area increase a similar amount, which sadly they probably aren't).



Quote:
East Manchester is one of the city's property hotspots and, with huge amounts of redevelopment work in the pipeline, newly-attracted residents to places like Beswick and Clayton are hoping the future's going to get even brighter

East Manchester is officially booming - with average house prices TREBLING since the year 2000.

If you had bought a house in M11, which covers Beswick, Clayton and Newton Heath, in 2000, you would have paid just £17,706 on average.

But so far this year, homes have been selling for nearly £100,000 - a staggering 480 per cent increase, compared to the national average of 139.2 per cent .

In M12, which covers Ardwick and Longsight, houses changed hands for just £21,427 back in 2000. Today, they sell for nearly £80,000 on average - a 273 per cent increase.

http://www.manchestereveningnews.co....-house-7906237
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Old October 11th, 2014, 01:23 AM   #208
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Quote:
Originally Posted by VDB View Post
[Great Information]
I think it's worth noting that Birmingham's GDP is only said to be higher for the same reasons as it's population is said to be higher - the way it counts local authorities is wildly different than the Greater Manchester area.

Taken as a whole, Manchester's GVA is the highest outside of London, considerably larger than Birmingham's when compared like-for-like, and is one of the fastest growing of any city in the UK over the past decade.

As you said, Manchester is super weird because of Salford and Bolton and all the ancillary towns - that are technically Manchester by any international standard - but have such storied and independent histories that we count them separately.

The other advantage Manchester has is that it is the largest city in the 'North' by far, and as such will receive considerable powers and influence once England shakes up its local authorities in the next general election. More so if Labour get the commons.

Of course, even then it's only 10% the size of London, in terms of economics. So there's a gap to be bridged.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 01:32 AM   #209
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Quote:
Originally Posted by pjm0512 View Post
It does seem that the BBC are still isistant that Brummie is the second city, and why?

It's obvious we've got the second most powerful city in England, if not the UK.

Look at where all the calls for Parliament to be moved to temporarily were centered at; not Birmingham, not Cardiff and neither Glasgow nor Edinburgh, but Manchester!

"The Conservatives are holding their party conference in the Second City..."

No they're not, they're holding it in a city still stuck in 1974 and Pebble Mill at One.

Where's the growth, Birmingham?
As an aside: The Tories aren't coming to Manchester because they'd get glassed the moment they stepped inside the M60. Manchester is a Labour fortress.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 01:27 PM   #210
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I had no idea about the GDP side of things, but I thought I had read somewhere that the West Midland's GDP is larger than Greater Manchester's GDP anyway? I wouldn't be surprised considering how many cars they churn out - Manchester's economy is, like London's, far more service-based - we're not actually making much 'stuff' up here, we're basically passing electronic money around all day - but then again jobs in the financial and media sectors which Manchester excels in are far more well-paid than jobs in manufacturing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by SomeKindOfBug View Post

The other advantage Manchester has is that it is the largest city in the 'North' by far, and as such will receive considerable powers and influence once England shakes up its local authorities in the next general election. More so if Labour get the commons.
Just taking this point on board - you'll notice I posted yesterday about the government announcing definite devolution for Greater Manchester and a 1bn pound deal to pay for infrastructure in the region - obviously fantastic news but Manchester is going to be the only city to benefit from it. Government has said that once other cities get their act together and start working with their neighbours like Manchester does they'll get the benefits too but in Birmingham in particular I can't see this being in the next 10 years at least because the Black Country councils are so stamp-foot objected to being part of a 'Greater Birmingham' of sorts.

I think the next city to benefit from devolution will be Leeds, although even then they need to give Wakefield and Bradford a slap across the face and tell them to behave because, like the Black Country, they too are objected to being part of a Greater Leeds.

Maybe this is where Greater Manchester's bizaare structure actually benefits us. With the Salford border lying a 5 minute walk from Manchester city hall, it's almost as if we've been forced to work with each other - Trafford too. As for the rest of the GM boroughs, well Greater Manchester is now 40 years old, and although some outlying boroughs still yearn for the traditional "Lancashire" or "Cheshire" address, it's easier to implement something that's already been implemented 40 years ago.
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Old October 11th, 2014, 01:38 PM   #211
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The black country has given Birmingham until christmas to join a combined authority otherwise they will look elsewhere, to south Staffordshire, Telford and Stoke.

We'll see how it pans out anyway. If we can get that done by christmas, hopefully we won't be too far behind Greater Manchester in getting devolution.

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Old October 11th, 2014, 05:09 PM   #212
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One Greengate: 31, 21, 17 & 13 floors | Apartments

Appears to be shooting up. Photos by GShutty.












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Old October 11th, 2014, 06:58 PM   #213
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As an aside: The Tories aren't coming to Manchester because they'd get glassed the moment they stepped inside the M60. Manchester is a Labour fortress.
All the reason more why Manchester is a great city!!!
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Old October 12th, 2014, 07:54 PM   #214
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ETIHAD STADIUM EXPANSION

Expansion to make the Etihad the country's third-largest stadium, after Wembley and Old Trafford on the other side of Manchester:






Picture by jrb

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Old October 12th, 2014, 08:00 PM   #215
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National Graphene Institute

Graphene is a substance largely predicted to replace silicon in the creation of electronic devices. It was invented in Manchester 10 years ago but is only just beginning to take off. The National Graphene Institute is to be based in Manchester to research and patent more uses for Graphene.

This video clip explains graphene - which is super-strong and super-conductive, as well as flexible (so basically we could have iPads in future which can fold away into your trouser pocket, that sort of thing). They're even talking about electronic newspapers. In addition, graphene is super conductive, and a solar panel made from graphene could deliver 100x the energy of a normal solar panel, so it could go a long way to solve the world's energy crisis too.




Render:





Picture taken by jrb

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Old October 13th, 2014, 04:30 PM   #216
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Clippers Quay | Salford Quays | Up to 15/10/10/9/9 fl | Pro

614 new apartments for Salford Quays.

Quote:
Originally Posted by nq View Post
App from Amstone has gone in for Clippers Quay.

5 block phased development. Full application for the 2 blocks in phase 1, outline only for the other three.

Flexible height parameters for the outline blocks.

[IMG]http://i59.************/2z3qptf.jpg[/IMG]

Developer: Amstone

Architect: Leach Rhodes Walker

Application:


Site:
[IMG]http://i60.************/119ur8w.jpg[/IMG]

Phasing:

[IMG]http://i60.************/bg7byf.jpg[/IMG]

Phase 1 - 208 Units
Block A - 104 Units over 8 floors
Block B - 104 Units over 8 floors

Phase 2 - 290 Units
Block D - 155 Units over 9 floors
Block E - 135 Units over 9 floors

Phase 3 - 116 Units / 167 Units
Block C - 116 Units over 11 floors (Potentially rising to 167 Units over 14 floors)

Total 614 Units
(potentially rising to 665 Units under the scale and density Parameter set out in the outline consent)

Landscaping:

Phase 1

[IMG]http://i60.************/2me1l75.jpg[/IMG]

Full scheme

[IMG]http://i61.************/5b4j7b.jpg[/IMG]

Renders:

[IMG]http://i61.************/21dn13r.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i58.************/28jheti.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i58.************/2e4civk.jpg[/IMG]

[IMG]http://i58.************/zmjqyc.jpg[/IMG]
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Old October 14th, 2014, 01:23 PM   #217
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One St Peter's Square | 14 floors | Offices

Stunning office block is now complete!

NOT MY PHOTO - this photo belongs to Hi-Fi, on the Manc forums.

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Old October 14th, 2014, 01:39 PM   #218
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Thanks for all the updates VDB - Manchester is doing really well at the moment - long may it continue.
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Old October 14th, 2014, 03:47 PM   #219
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I think that culturally speaking Manchester surpasses Birmingham. From Art to Sport. For example... when I am away in the U.S. or the world, everyone has heard of Manchester United. Everyone knows that Oasis and The Stone Roses are from Manchester. People KNOW Manchester, UK.

People have only heard of Birmingham a couple of times. (Obviously this isn't the case all of the time). But Americans especially - when they hear the name Birmingham, they think of Alabama, not England.

I think this does matter. Not everything comes down to numbers - and even then I believe that Manchester is becoming more obviously prominant.

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Old October 14th, 2014, 06:16 PM   #220
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Do you think Liverpool & Manchester will be one big mega city some day?

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