Tampa Bay Area Regional Transportation Authority (TBARTA)

[TampaMike]

Originally Posted by HARTride 2012

Agreed. I'm currently drawing up a cross-Pasco rail line (Brown Line) and extending my Pink & Yellow lines into Hernando. I think I will also extend my Orange Line train up into Brooksville.

I was going to say that SR 54 which turns into SR 56 should had also been proposed to have a rail line going along it, but I'm alright with a rapid-bus network...kinda alright. You'll have the whole western side of Pasco heading to the area to grab a light-rail train to go to St. Pete.

[HARTride 2012]

Here is the latest draft of my rail vision, loosely based on what TBARTA now has.

[TampaMike]

This is what I have created for the Pasco part of the master plan. On the West side of Pasco, we have one line for rapid bus transit going down US 19 and another line for rail going down McMullen Booth. On the East side of Pasco, we have rail going along Bruce B Downs and Rapid Bus going down 30. I also have 2 Rapid Bus Lines going through the center of Pasco, one on Suncoast and the other up and down I-75. I have also included 2 East to West Rapid Bus lines that will both sides of the county.

http://maps.google.com/maps/ms?hl=en...26849&t=h&z=10

[I-275westcoastfl]

I guess its an okay start but I'm not too impressed, in Pinellas County they should have some kind of connection to downtown Dunedin and Honeymoon Island. Another thing is they need rail to split from that area around where Courtney Campbell is to Clearwater Airport. While there might be a rail stop to take the bus over the Bayside Bridge, us locals know that bridge is bad at rush hour and that express bus won't be moving very quickly. That way one could go directly from North Pinellas to St.Pete without having to stop in Clearwater, Largo, and all those places.

[TampaMike]

What many people have refused to see about the consequences of not constructing a rail network is the fact that if we don't have a rail system that will ease our roadways and freeways, we will be overlooked by many state, national, and international events. It would be a miracle if even more if Tampa was ever giving the decision to bid for the World Cup if it didn't have plans today for a rail network system. Super Bowl, NCAA Finals, etc wouldn't be looking to Tampa when they could look to Charlotte, Denver, and Dallas who all have rail service and have plans in expanding their rail service. So that's millions of dollars that Tampa would be missing out that will be end up hurting the residents of Tampa and all the counties because now they will have to come up with money that would end up becominh increase in taxes.

[tampasteve]

Originally Posted by TampaMike

What many people have refused to see about the consequences of not constructing a rail network is the fact that if we don't have a rail system that will ease our roadways and freeways, we will be overlooked by many state, national, and international events.

We already have lost bids because of it. The lack of effective transit is one of the main reasons Tampa lost the bid for the 2008 Republican convention. That and the lack of hotel space in the DT area.

Steve

[HARTride 2012]

Yep. That'll be the consequence. And that people will terribly regret. This is why we need to change thier long standing opinion about mass transit. As I mentioned before, far too many people here have that small town mindset. Tampa is no small town, not by a long shot. And yet people seem to think otherwise.

[TampaMike]

I have both emailed and recieved feedback by both the Mayor of New Port Richey as well as the Pasco MTO on the matter of no rail line in West Pasco. I have recieved great feedback with all agreeing with me that there needs to be a line feeding into the area and have all forwarded the issue to top members on the TBARTA board. If something does come from this, that would be great.

Oh Yeah, forgot to include this. This is the whole book for the master plan presented last week.

http://www.tbarta.com/content/complete-master-plan

[HARTride 2012]

Cool! Thanks.

[HARTride 2012]

TBARTA has improved their website and will be joining Facebook soon.

[HARTride 2012]

From the TBARTA website

Thank you to everyone that participated in our first week of iTownHall meetings! They have been a great success, with over 13, 756 people. Join us Monday, May 4, 2009 with Mayor Frank Hibbard and Chair Shelton Quarles to talk about the Master Plan.

If you are interested in joining the iTownHall meeting and do not receive a call, you may call toll-free, 1-877-269-7289 and enter PIN is 14837#. Due to heavy call volume, if you don't get through the first time, please try again.

To ask a question during the iTownHall meetings, you can also:

* Ask a question from the TBARTA website
* Ask a question by sending an email to TBARTA
* Ask a question through TBARTA’s Twitter page

Please join us for an iTownHall meeting to talk about the Master Plan!

Beginning April 27, 2009, TBARTA began a series of real-time interactive telephone meetings, called iTownHall meetings, throughout the region. During the meetings, TBARTA Board members give a brief presentation and are available to answer questions and respond to comments about the Master Plan. A random sample of 40,000 residents will be called each night and invited to participate in live iTownHall meetings. If you are interested in joining the iTownHall meeting and do not receive a call, you may call toll-free, 1-877-269-7289 and enter PIN 14837#. Due to heavy call volume, if you don't get through the first time, please try again.

Between April 27 and May 13, over 300,000 residents will be invited to use this exciting new technology and speak directly to members of the TBARTA Board and TBARTA’s Executive Director. Their input will guide the final development of the Regional Transportation Master Plan.

Live telephone town hall meetings (called iTownHall meetings) have been successfully used by members of Congress who want to speak directly to their constituents. TBARTA will tap this communication breakthrough to vastly increase the amount of input from the citizens who will ultimately use the TBARTA transportation system.

The schedule for the iTownHall meetings, beginning at 7 p.m. each night, is as follows:

* Monday, April 27: Hosted by Commissioner Ken Hagan, Hillsborough County and Shawn Harrison, Gubernatorial Appointee
* Tuesday, April 28: Hosted by Commissioner Ann Hildebrand
* Wednesday, April 29: Hosted by Commissioner David Russell, Hernando County
* Thursday, April 30: Hosted by Commissioner Karen Seel, Pinellas County and Councilman Jeff Danner, City of St. Petersburg
* Monday, May 4: Hosted by Mayor Frank Hibbard, City of Clearwater and Shelton Quarles, Chairman and Gubernatorial Appointee
* Tuesday, May 5: Hosted by Commissioner Nora Patterson, Sarasota County and Michael Bullerdick, Gubernatorial Appointee
* Wednesday, May 6: Hosted by Commissioner Donna Hayes, Manatee County, Mayor Wayne Poston, City of Bradenton, and Hugh McGuire, Gubernatorial Appointee
* Thursday, May 7: Hosted by Commissioner John Thrumston, Citrus County
* Wednesday, May 13: Hosted by Mayor Pam Iorio, City of Tampa and FDOT District 7 Secretary Don Skelton

Here is how the iTownHall meetings will work:

* A random sample of 40,000 residents will be called each night and invited to participate in an iTownHall meeting.
* In addition to the random calls, interested citizens who wish to join the iTownHall meeting may call toll-free, 1-877-269-7289 and enter PIN# 14837# prior to each call.
* Eight iTownHall meetings are scheduled for a total of 320,000 calls over a two-week period.
* Two TBARTA Board members, along with staff, will host the calls and answer questions from participants.
* Participants may either ask questions on the call, or submit their comments on-line by visiting the TBARTA web site at www.TBARTA.com.
* Anyone who plans to participate in a TBARTA iTownHall meeting is encouraged to visit the TBARTA web site and view the draft Regional Transportation Master Plan.

In addition to the iTownHall meetings, residents will have an opportunity to comment on the draft Regional Transportation Master Plan at a public hearing on May 11, 2009 at 6 p.m. at the Alfano Center at 11606 N. McKinley Drive, Tampa, 33612. Information about this public hearing can be found at the TBARTA website.

[HARTride 2012]

Tampa Bay can learn from Orlando's failure with its SunRail commuter rail plan
By Robert Trigaux, Times Business Columnist
In Print: Tuesday, May 5, 2009

Orlando's mass transit loss is Tampa Bay's learning opportunity.

State legislators gave a big thumbs down last week to Orlando's SunRail, the proposed $1.2 billion, 61.5-mile commuter rail service intended to operate along CSX railroad tracks.

The Tampa Bay business community went out of its way to throw its support behind distant SunRail, lobbying legislators and Friday running a full page ad in this newspaper — complete with more than 50 names of business and civic leaders — urging approval of SunRail.

It was not to be. SunRail died for many quotable reasons. "We're billions short in our state budget and in a recession." "Not enough commuters will use it to justify the cost." The deal's complex political history also hurt its support.

But SunRail suffered from basic problems. Out-of-favor CSX was the owner of the rail lines. And an unfortunate provision in the deal left the state exposed and liable in case there was a wreck involving the commuter service.

SunRail's deal to use CSX tracks expires June 30, perhaps killing the deal for good.

All good lessons for Tampa Bay to absorb and avoid in the future as this metro area gets serious about building support for its own mass transit system called TBARTA — the Tampa Bay Area Regional Transit Authority.

Tampa Bay's business world got involved, wisely so, in SunRail for good reasons. Central Florida — it does not matter if it's Orlando or Tampa Bay — is getting too crowded to keep adding lanes to roads and then claiming transportation victory.

Had legislators blessed SunRail, that success could have supplied a map for TBARTA to pursue its own goals.

As economic development officials repeat: The greater Tampa Bay and Orlando areas are converging. Like it or not, we'll need a mass transit system, other than our already dreaded Interstate 4, connecting our two metro area transit systems.

Not to be confused with SunRail or TBARTA is yet another rail system, part of a national, high-speed rail proposal that could link Tampa and Orlando with Miami. Any progress on that system would depend on federal stimulus money.

This is not just about Central Florida. Comparable metro areas, including Charlotte, N.C., Denver and Dallas — even smaller cities like Little Rock, Nashville, Austin, Memphis and Salt Lake City — all have young mass transit systems. Of the largest 25 metro areas, only Tampa Bay and Detroit do not have rail or rail projects.

Ignore ours long enough and Tampa Bay will be branded as a less-than-competitive business area.

"When do we become endangered here? Through many metrics, we know that transportation is one of the challenges in our community as we grow," says Stuart Rogel, who heads the Tampa Bay Partnership regional economic development group.

"We hear it as the No. 1 issue from our business leaders, and an increasing concern as we talk to people considering business opportunities in the Tampa Bay area."

When the time is right, Tampa Bay's own mass transit plan may face many of the same legislators and issues that kiboshed Orlando's rail system. Here's hoping that area backers will have learned their SunRail lessons well.

Robert Trigaux can be reached at trigaux@sptimes.com or (727) 893-8405.



[Last modified: May 04, 2009 09:20 PM]

http://www.tampabay.com/news/busines...icle998073.ece

[smiley]

Right - screw CSX - get your own right of way

[Lakelander]

Unfortunately, CSX is not the issue. They'll operate just fine without selling their tracks or allowing commuter rail on their freight lines. We can all push for our own ROW, but at the end of the day, we have to have leaders who will support rail enough to the point where something significant actually makes it off the drawing board. Right now, its hard to say we've reached that point.

[HARTride 2012]

Good point Lakelander. Support for SunRail no doubt was significant, but not high enough to get everyone on board. Dockery was clearly able to get Storms and other staunch Republicans on her side to shoot the plan down. In Tampa's LRT case, support is also not very high, not to mention many people still don't know what TBARTA is. Furthermore, I still predict that the tax referendum will end up failing by at least 70% unless the message can be pushed to the people the light rail is an important step in Tampa's future. Otherwise, people will continue to have the mindset that "what will this do for me? We're in a recession and we simply can't afford this!"

[smiley]

Until you accept that it was a bad deal that was very hard to defend (and possibly illegal), you will not get anything done. Even more so because DOT (the Feds) may have not put up any money for it because of the liability issue. It's nice to draw pretty pictures and dream of cool trains, but it would behoove you to create a rational plan.

and if CSX was so happy to keep all the rails, why sell? Either it was too sweetheart a deal that should never be accepted by the state or CSX wants to ditch the rail or both. In any event, it was bad for the state.

[Lakelander]

They were approached by the State. It was pretty much the same thing the State did with Tri-Rail, both in terms of buying the tracks & leasing back to CSX and with the liability issue. Then the State made them a deal too good to refuse. I just don't see how anyone can make CSX the bad guy in this deal. Floridians have no one to blame but the clowns they elected to represent them in Tallahassee.

[Lakelander]

Even more so because DOT (the Feds) may have not put up any money for it because of the liability issue.

By the way, you're off base about the liability issue and the Feds. If you look at the liability deals of commuter rail systems across the country, the CSX liability issue was pretty common. In fact there are a number existing systems that operate under deals where commuter is liable for 100% of everything. Anyway, a significant amount of those systems were federally funded. With Mica and Brown both being on transporation committee, its hard to believe that federal funding would not be made available. Plus, if it were not, the entire deal could not happen anyway.

Nevertheless, none of this matters now. We've been paving over this state with highways for over 50 years now so things will just remain status quo.

It's nice to draw pretty pictures and dream of cool trains, but it would behoove you to create a rational plan.

The rational plan is working with Amtrak to establish a statewide rail service where Amtrak trains come every hour or two. They have a butt load of new federal resources to improve track capacity issues, already operate on CSX rails (no liability issues to deal with) and most cities already have stations in place. So the best solution would be to funnel the Sunrail and HSR ideas and money into an Amtrak based plan that provides reliable and frequent service to the entire state.

A good example to follow is the Amtrak Pacific Surfliner and Capital Corridor services in California.



Imagine trains running every hour between cities and suburbs? What the Pacific Surfliner does in California is basically the same thing Sunrail was going to provide for Orlando. Except in Florida's case, this thing could serve Tampa, Lakeland, Orlando, Jacksonville, Miami and all the cities in between.



Amtrak Capital Corridor


With reliable service, TOD possibilities would be created in every city along Amtrak's corridors in the State


Take a look at the frequencies. That's better service than Sunrail. The train times in grey are the intercity trains we normally associate with Amtrak. A corridor service is a completely different and more reliable animal.


By the way, going with Amtrak allows us to tap into their stimulus dollars to pay for Florida rail capacity and station improvements. In the long run, this will reduce the cost of localized commuter rail capital costs throughout the state because Amtrak dollars will have to fund half the upgrades also needed for commuter rail.

So if we really want to be rational with rail, the answer should be enhancing Amtrak first, will investing in local rail systems (heavy, light, commuter, streetcar, etc.) along corridors not served by Amtrak routes.

[smiley]

The Fed DOT is interested in changing the rules under Obama . . .

If it was Florida's idea and it was such a good deal CSX couldn't refuse - it should have failed. I blame the people who made this plan and allowed that provision. Just because tri-rail screwed up doesn't mean the mistake has to be repeated forever.

As for Amtrak - that is a rational plan.

[Jasonhouse]

I would love to see the money the state was going to put into Sunrail be put towards whatever the feds are willing to match with Amtrak commuter service in the state. Not only would that be a more productive use of the money, but it would benefit many more people than just a system in Orlando... Plus, then Orlando can use their share of the Sunrail plan to either augment their local system, or put the money towards feeder buses or streetcar circulators that tie into Amtrak.