Can't get ADSL - Any suggestions?

[NCC1701D]

Hi all, I need some help and some of you guys know what you’re on about sometimes so I thought I’d try you out.

My telephone line to my house is on a Pair Gain system. (If at this point you don’t know what that is I suggest you don’t read on) If you do? Then this is my problem.

My exchange supports ADSL1 and as im led to believe ADSL2 but from the exchange to my house there is this thing called a RIM which houses Pair Gain systems. I do not have cable in my area (hence my foxtel satellite) and the 3G network through Optus is non existent and with Telstra we can get it but it is about 3 times as expensive as ADSL plans.

I want to know how to get off this dreaded Pair Gain system. I have applied through various ISP’s for ADSL but they keep rejecting my application saying because im on a pair gain system there is nothing much they can do at the moment. Even if I ask for a transposition form to be done (to change your phone line to copper cabling which will enable ADSL) on my line they still come back to me and say sorry. When I ask Telstra to do it they refuse, even if I have applied through BigPond as a ISP.

The thing that really gets me is that my neighbour across the road has actually been successful and is off a pair gain system and has had the necessary copper cabling done to his house from the RIM (green boxes you see on the side of the road in new estates or housing estates) which to my understanding is why I have a pair gain system.

Any suggestions, hints or stories of other successful happy endings on getting off a pair gain system would be appreciated and moving house is not an option yet.

Thanks in advance.

[tayser]

You got the double whammy.

Getting off the pair gain is a Telstra line issue - you're not going to get far going through the retail internet channels, you need to speak to someone in their retail phone services area.

Say you get off pair gain, you're still going to be on a RIM which means you're going to be stuck on ADSL1. And there's limited capacity in the mini-MUXs (multiplexers) they install in them too.

And yeah, 3g wireless is absolute bollocks. You have a hard slog ahead of you re: line issues if you decide to pursue Telstra to get your copper changed - and be prepared if they ask you to pay for it too.

[NCC1701D]

Im prepared to just get ADSL1, im not after much at the moment just something more then dialup. Im pretty sure my RIM is a minimux. I have already asked the phone services area of Telstra to do something but they reckon they cant.

BigPond today have told me that they have stopped doing transposition forms - I fuckin' blew my stack when they told me that. I ended up ringing up Telstra "faults" and told them I have a fault with my line, they asked me what it was and i told them I am on a Pair Gain system and I consider it a fault. The guy actually took me seriously and registered my complaint - wonder how far that will get me

One thing I want to know is I wonder what would happen if I was to ask for an extra line to my house? What are my chances? and if its possible, will this help me get ADSL if I then ask them to somehow combined the lines back into one..... Is it that simple??

[Perth4life]

yeh go a new line, itd be just like getting a new line for a new house wouldnt it?

[NCC1701D]

Possibly, but im afraid that even the new line would run off the pair gain system somehow because its the only infrastructure they have to go off.

You guys take hi speed internet for granted, I can't even view 3/4 of the pictures on this site because it takes ages - it is so fucking frustrating.

At work we've got hi speed internet but they've disabled photo links to sites such as flickr and photobucket just to add to my fucking misery.

Also the worst thing about being on a pair gain system through a Non intergrated RIM (NIRIM) is that dialup speeds are actually slower than the advertised 56k. On a NIRIM speeds are actually between 28.8k - 31.2k

I need HELP and Suggestions !!!

[eastadl]

Originally Posted by NCC1701D

Hi all, I need some help and some of you guys know what you’re on about sometimes so I thought I’d try you out.

My telephone line to my house is on a Pair Gain system. (If at this point you don’t know what that is I suggest you don’t read on) If you do? Then this is my problem.

My exchange supports ADSL1 and as im led to believe ADSL2 but from the exchange to my house there is this thing called a RIM which houses Pair Gain systems. I do not have cable in my area (hence my foxtel satellite) and the 3G network through Optus is non existent and with Telstra we can get it but it is about 3 times as expensive as ADSL plans.

I want to know how to get off this dreaded Pair Gain system. I have applied through various ISP’s for ADSL but they keep rejecting my application saying because im on a pair gain system there is nothing much they can do at the moment. Even if I ask for a transposition form to be done (to change your phone line to copper cabling which will enable ADSL) on my line they still come back to me and say sorry. When I ask Telstra to do it they refuse, even if I have applied through BigPond as a ISP.

The thing that really gets me is that my neighbour across the road has actually been successful and is off a pair gain system and has had the necessary copper cabling done to his house from the RIM (green boxes you see on the side of the road in new estates or housing estates) which to my understanding is why I have a pair gain system.

Any suggestions, hints or stories of other successful happy endings on getting off a pair gain system would be appreciated and moving house is not an option yet.

Thanks in advance.

ok, i work for horrid Telstra and have to deal with these enquiries constantly. Pair gain system is where you techically share a line with (for example) your neighbour, and was developed to save on copper wire, before we knew what the internet was. If you apply for ADSL with any provider other than Telstra, when they realise its on PGS, they reject it straight away which is silly. We at Telstra advise everyone to make sure your internet provider still puts the adsl order in, and submit a transposition request (to change from PGS to copper) which downloads to a telstra wholesale area, which then looks into whether its feasible. Its about a 70% success rate each time a transposition request is made, but you have to get your isp to apply to telstra for you, and some isp's dont want to bother
If you go with bigpond from the start though, your locked into a 1 or 2 year contract.
A rim is something inside the phone exchange that does something i forget. Somehow you can get adsl even if your on a rim, a tech is required to do 'exchange jumpering'. Those metal boxes on some street corners is a pillar which is a hub of the cables. They dont do anything. Your problem with PGS is mainly in the pit in the footpath out the front of your house, which houses the cable pairs. the cable pairs in your pit to your house go onto a line that is shared with someone else. From the pit to exchange is not the main problem (unless your too far away) There are spare cable pairs in each pit, so if you wanted to put a new line in, its costs $299, but the success of copper is if there is some spare in your area. For some unknown reason, Telstra wankers still put PGS in some new areas to save on costs. Telstras motto should be 'cut costs, at the customers expense'
At every exchange there are 2 types of phone systems, that make the phone calls connect. 1 is old, 1 is newer, and you have no say in what your line comes out of. If its the older system you have less chance of adsl, as some need rims. Its like comparing a comodore 64 computer compared to a latest PC, the latest is much quicker and powerful, but some exchanges are so old, and Telstra will only upgrade them if they see some $$$$ in return.

last word, keep trying to get your internet provider to submit a transposition

[BroadGauge]

http://forums.whirlpool.net.au

Pair Gain has been discussed many times on there, have a read.

[eastadl]

by the way, all isp's do it, but the speeds of adsl ie kb/s, is one of the greatest cons in Australia. For example bigponds lowest plan is of a 256 kb/s speed, but this is the maximum speed it could potentially run at if every variable and condition is perfect, and that never happens. All adsl speeds on average run at one/eighth of the speed that is actually advertised. the main factor is the distance of your phone cable from your house to the phone exchange. if its over 4.5km (i think), you can still get adsl but it will fizzle out to dial up speed so we say that adsl is not available. Telstra has put some boosters in at some exchanges. The main whinge is customers who say, 'but the exchange is just down the road', however the physical cable is probably going around every other street in your suburb in circles before it gets to your house
Ive got no idea how adsl2 works

[BroadGauge]

There's a difference between kilobits, like the speed advertised (say 512/128 kbit) and the download spead, which is in kilobytes.

Confusing, huh?

[eastadl]

um your confusing me now.

kilobits is the speed

kilobytes is your downloads

ie i started off on bigpond $29.95 a month, which is a 200 megabyte download limit at 256/128 kilobits per second speed.
Im now on unlimited downloads but we have to say the speed may slow after 12GB. Yay i get to pay $59 a month, and Im a telstra employee. We are a rip-off

[invincible]

Kilobits per second is a measure of speed.

Kilobits (kb with a small b) and kilobytes (kB) are both measures of data volume.

Long explanation:
Bits are used in a communications context because a bit is a single signal down the wire/fibre. Bytes are used on your computer because it takes eight bits to represent a character, or for non-textual data, a neat two-digit hexadecimal number. Therefore the ISPs as a provider of communications services use bits and your computer which processes data uses bytes. The confusion lies in the fact that the symbol for bits is b and the symbol for bytes is B.

the main factor is the distance of your phone cable from your house to the phone exchange. if its over 4.5km (i think), you can still get adsl but it will fizzle out to dial up speed so we say that adsl is not available.

Traditional ADSL1 sees little decrease in speed as distance from exchange increases - and even then it's only noticeable at the maximum possible speed of 8Mb/s. ADSL2+ is the type where the speed quickly drops off as distance increases but most (all?) ISPs guarantee 1.5Mb/s. Of course there are still places where the cable length to exchange is so long that it's hard to provide a reliable service.

[NCC1701D]

Thanks for all the info guys, especially eastadl. I am constantly applying with Internode who are very good. Even though they keep rejecting me they keep telling me to apply every week or so and put in a transposition form at no expense to me, which is good.

Just keep hammering away at Telstra they say.

Im even prepared to pay the $299 if need be. But these f*ckers at Telstra can't even be bothered coming out.

I'll win, I know I will - Just keep hammering away at them. Thats what my neighbour did, took him close to 5 months but he's got ADSL now.

Hey eastadl? - What are my chances of getting another line put into my house and somehow combining the two shortly after back into one, what that somehow give me an opportunity to get ADSL?

[uewepuep]

Move house!

[NCC1701D]

Read the second last paragraph of my first post !!

[eastadl]

Originally Posted by NCC1701D

Thanks for all the info guys, especially eastadl. I am constantly applying with Internode who are very good. Even though they keep rejecting me they keep telling me to apply every week or so and put in a transposition form at no expense to me, which is good.

Just keep hammering away at Telstra they say.

Im even prepared to pay the $299 if need be. But these f*ckers at Telstra can't even be bothered coming out.

I'll win, I know I will - Just keep hammering away at them. Thats what my neighbour did, took him close to 5 months but he's got ADSL now.

Hey eastadl? - What are my chances of getting another line put into my house and somehow combining the two shortly after back into one, what that somehow give me an opportunity to get ADSL?

well I would place an order for a new line if I were you, caus when your ring and order it, make sure they put a code on the order NPGDSL (which means the new line is tagged for adsl use - copper). If at the worst case they say no copper available they will ring you to see if you want to withdraw the order. Even if the tech comes out, and also advises no copper, you can ring us to withdraw the order still. So you will only pay the $299 if its successful. The only problem at moment is getting a technician out. The floods in Qld, and the fact that Telstra is privatising the technicians, so they're wage drops from 50 grand to 40 grand, is not making them happy so there are technician delays like we have never ever seen before. In Melb people are waiting almost a month, while yesterday i placed an order in Alice Springs and could get a tech tomorrow.
Make sure you tell them to put that code on though, because 1/4 of our staff at Telstra are either new, dont know what they are doing caus they're not trained properly, or dont care. Telstra cares only about us making sales for them, nothing else anymore. All I seem to be doing at work is fixing Telstra consultant stuff-ups

[NCC1701D]

Originally Posted by eastadl

well I would place an order for a new line if I were you, caus when your ring and order it, make sure they put a code on the order NPGDSL (which means the new line is tagged for adsl use - copper). If at the worst case they say no copper available they will ring you to see if you want to withdraw the order. Even if the tech comes out, and also advises no copper, you can ring us to withdraw the order still. So you will only pay the $299 if its successful. The only problem at moment is getting a technician out. The floods in Qld, and the fact that Telstra is privatising the technicians, so they're wage drops from 50 grand to 40 grand, is not making them happy so there are technician delays like we have never ever seen before. In Melb people are waiting almost a month, while yesterday i placed an order in Alice Springs and could get a tech tomorrow.
Make sure you tell them to put that code on though, because 1/4 of our staff at Telstra are either new, dont know what they are doing caus they're not trained properly, or dont care. Telstra cares only about us making sales for them, nothing else anymore. All I seem to be doing at work is fixing Telstra consultant stuff-ups

Thanks again but sorry to keep asking you but........ if I ask them to put in another line and because they reckon they can't find any extra cabling and because im on a pair gain system currently, im wondering whether because of the current infrastructure that the line will be coming off, I will be no better off !! - Does that make sense?

[Avatar]

Originally Posted by NCC1701D

Hi all, I need some help and some of you guys know what you’re on about sometimes so I thought I’d try you out.

My telephone line to my house is on a Pair Gain system. (If at this point you don’t know what that is I suggest you don’t read on) If you do? Then this is my problem.

My exchange supports ADSL1 and as im led to believe ADSL2 but from the exchange to my house there is this thing called a RIM which houses Pair Gain systems. I do not have cable in my area (hence my foxtel satellite) and the 3G network through Optus is non existent and with Telstra we can get it but it is about 3 times as expensive as ADSL plans.

I want to know how to get off this dreaded Pair Gain system. I have applied through various ISP’s for ADSL but they keep rejecting my application saying because im on a pair gain system there is nothing much they can do at the moment. Even if I ask for a transposition form to be done (to change your phone line to copper cabling which will enable ADSL) on my line they still come back to me and say sorry. When I ask Telstra to do it they refuse, even if I have applied through BigPond as a ISP.

The thing that really gets me is that my neighbour across the road has actually been successful and is off a pair gain system and has had the necessary copper cabling done to his house from the RIM (green boxes you see on the side of the road in new estates or housing estates) which to my understanding is why I have a pair gain system.

Any suggestions, hints or stories of other successful happy endings on getting off a pair gain system would be appreciated and moving house is not an option yet.

Thanks in advance.

Ring Telstra Transpositioning, Mrs Savage, and tell her you want to be placed on copper lines and no rim. Telstra can make the change. In the early days of ADSL I too had problems with lines and rims. I got hold of the most awesome woman at Telstra who had helped a few people I knew. In less than a fortnight I had direct copper to the exchange and access to ADSL well before anyone in the estate.

[NCC1701D]

Hey... I've been meaning to reply to this thread for a while now but I just want to thank all you guys for all your advice in this thread. It really did help. So much so I spun all this shit to Telstra and Bigpond in a way that made me sound like I knew what I was on about and knew exactly what to say and do and wouldn't you know it...... I am the proud owner of a ADSL modem and happliy typing away using ADSL internet.....

Albeit on the lowest Bigpond plan (Had to go with Bigpond for the first 2 years). Im happy with that for the time being and I managed to get 9 months at half price too.

Well, this all happened in September of last year but I just thought I'd thank all you guys.

A BIG THANKS....

[nikko]

Just goes to show if you're willing to put in the six months of effort, Telstra will listen to your concerns

[brizboy]

NCC, send me your Home number via PM i work for AAPT and i can run a test on it for you, we have our own ADSL2+ Infrastructure and use Telstra ADSL1