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Old February 26th, 2009, 10:14 PM   #281
Robosteve
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Anyway, shall we change the 60-60-24 split of subdivisions of a day as they aren't 10 (and also change)? Then multiples of days are in 7, 28, 29, 30, 31, 365 and 366 (week, month, month, month, month, year, year). Why have all efforts to try and decimalise (or even logicise) time failed? Because the divisions are the right size - a tenth of a day is too long, a hundredth of a day too short to be the primary subdivision. 7 days is the right number for a week, varying months aren't that much of a problem (and are based on a fixed thing - moon rotations) and a year is fixed.
I feel that time should be decimalised. The SI unit for time is the second, creating the inconvenience of having the day (which is the most significant time period to our human lives) being 86,400 base SI units. Weeks, months and such would be harder to decimalise, as they have to fit into the natural system of having 365.2425 days in a year, but at the very least we should have ten hours a day, a hundred minutes an hour and a hundred seconds per minute.

The biggest problem I can see with this is not the conversion of clocks to decimal time, but the conversion of all other units that depend on time. Units such as newtons, joules, amps, volts and watts all contain a "second" term in them somewhere if written out in terms of base SI units. This means that every voltmeter, ammeter and electricity meter would need to be recalibrated, plus nutritional information on food packaging would need to be rewritten (the kilojoule would change its value) and force, one of the most important quantities in physics, would need to have every measuring device which displays a reading in newtons recalibrated.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 02:47 AM   #282
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Quote:
Originally Posted by sotonsi View Post
Smaller numbers, and in cases of feet, most people have two good guestimates at the bottom of their legs.
Hmm there is big difference between child's foot and basketball player foot

Quote:
Other things like cups (perhaps the best customary measure - a great shame the Brits don't use it) are nice and easy to picture.
You must be joking! There are so many different sizes and shapes of cups. How can you say it is easy to picture? Which cup? my massive mug or my flatmate tiny cup?

In both systems people have to learn measurements, they are not intuitive. Foot is not anybody's foot it is precise measurement. The same wit yard, mile or centimetre. Of course most people get used to system with which they grew up.

Quote:
To sum up my argument:
  • the cost of metricating signs is rediculously high.
  • there is no real benefit to end users of having miles and yards over kilometres and metres and vice versa.
  • therefore it's really not worth doing - consistency with the rest of the world, other things is not worth justifying a massive cost
  • some things might justify it - a radical overhaul of signage perhaps
  • one possibility is have new signs have both miles and km on, then when those are replaced, have just km. The problem then becomes speed limits - Ireland had to do theirs overnight and each state would be the same.
It won't happen because:
- it's to expensive
- there are no obvious benefits in everyday lives (apart from tourists but it is not good enough reason)
- people treat measurements more as part of heritage than just useful tool, in other words they won't give imperial system up (even if from mathematical and logical point of view metric is simpler)

To be honest miles and yards are the easiest part of imperial system. At least for me. Easy to convert instantly in my head.
Yard is more or less meter
Mile is more or less 1,5km plus a bit.
So I don't have any problems with imperial road signs.
Also pound is easy as almost half a litre.
What drives me mad are all this ounces (dry and liquid), gallons (British and American are different), pints (again to different ones to make life more complicated), stones (what a silly measurement), or the worst of them, the Fahrenheit for temperature.
I know they have all historic origin but they always make me cry and laugh at the same time.

But by now we are far OT from original title of this thread.
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Old February 27th, 2009, 06:08 AM   #283
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Well, I'll try and somewhat bring this back on topic.

Alabama put up metric "mileage" markers on its major highways in the mid-90s in preparation for the Atlanta Olympics (some events were to be held in Birmingham, but they put up signs all over the state, to my best knowledge). Unfortunately, almost all of them were removed in decade since then.
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Old March 1st, 2009, 04:00 PM   #284
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This is really off-topic for this thread since it deals with an Interstate highway, but in the spirit of keeping metric discussion together, here are mockups of the metric signs on I-19 in Arizona. (Crimson-slashed signs are fictitious.)

More details are in the Wikipedia article and in a thread dealing with I-19 on the SABRE forum.



















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Old March 1st, 2009, 06:23 PM   #285
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Grand Central Parkway in 1989
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Old March 2nd, 2009, 07:34 AM   #286
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Heres some of my Non - Interstate Shots i took today in North Jersey and New york State on my weekly Sunday Loop trip!

NJ SR 93

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NJ SR 93 @ US 46

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Entrance Ramp to US 46 from NJ SR 93

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Old March 4th, 2009, 05:41 PM   #287
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WisDOT to remove 'S' curves on US 10/WI 441 in Menasha, WI

The (posted at) 90 km/h (55 mph for the Luddites) 'S' curves on US 10/WI 441 in Menasha, WI (just south of Appleton) will be unkinked as a part of revised plans for the freeway's pending upgrade to six lanes. This revision will require ROW acquisition, displacing an apartment complex among other things, and will add at least $80M to the project's cost.

Previously, the plans had minor adjustments to the freeway's mainline course in order to remove a curve from its bridges over Midway Rd.

WisDOT is also now planning to replacing most or all of the side street interchange ramp intersections with roundabouts as part of this project.

See:
http://www.postcrescent.com/article/...543/1003/APC01

"Safety concerns drive design changes for U.S. 10-State 441

By Michael King - Post-Crescent staff writer - March 4, 2009

MENASHA — Safety concerns due to crash data have prompted design revisions to the U.S. 10-State 441 curves east of the Roland Kampo Bridge under a new plan unveiled Tuesday.

Local officials got their first look at the changes to the Tri-County Freeway expansion project that state Department of Transportation officials said will push the estimated project cost from $251 million previously to about $330 million in today's dollars.

In order to straighten the curves to accommodate a future 70 mph highway speed, the revisions include the need to acquire right-of-way that would displace a 48-unit apartment complex near the Racine Street intersection and a strip mall, storage business and a Winnebago County salt shed near the Midway Road intersection.

The proposed project, which would take about four years to complete, covers six miles from County CB in the Town of Menasha to Oneida Street in Appleton, including completion of the 10-41 interchange and the addition of a second bridge over Little Lake Butte des Morts just south of the existing span."

(See link for rest of article)


Also see:
http://maps.live.com/default.aspx?v=...cl=1&encType=1
for a very good aerial image of this section.

BTW, *NOBODY* locally calls it the 'Roland Kampo Bridge', named after a minor local politician, it's the 'Little Lake Butte des Morts Bridge' and ever since the freeway opened to traffic in 1991, it has never been referred to by the public as the 'Tri-County Freeway' (its working name when it was being planned) - it's 'Highway four-forty-one' or just 'Four-forty-one'.

Mike
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Old March 10th, 2009, 08:46 PM   #288
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Unusual roundabout intersection in Springfield, MA.

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Old March 11th, 2009, 02:40 AM   #289
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Robosteve View Post
I feel that time should be decimalised. The SI unit for time is the second, creating the inconvenience of having the day (which is the most significant time period to our human lives) being 86,400 base SI units. Weeks, months and such would be harder to decimalise, as they have to fit into the natural system of having 365.2425 days in a year, but at the very least we should have ten hours a day, a hundred minutes an hour and a hundred seconds per minute.
Hell yeah! The French did it already!
See for instance here:

http://pebblez.com/blog/decimal-time...minute-clocks/
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Old March 11th, 2009, 11:02 AM   #290
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Time is not really a problem IMO because the whole world already uses the same system.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 01:04 PM   #291
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Picture by ctsignguy;



The bottom sign is from 1927, the upper sign is from 2007, hence 80 years difference
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Old March 29th, 2009, 01:27 PM   #292
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mgk920 View Post
The (posted at) 90 km/h (55 mph for the Luddites) 'S' curves on US 10/WI 441 in Menasha, WI (just south of Appleton) will be unkinked as a part of revised plans for the freeway's pending upgrade to six lanes.
I thought it was just I-19 that had metric signage. Your sentence reads as if these curves are posted at 90km/h. They wouldn't be - they'd be posted at 55mph, which is only 88.5km/h. You are not a Luddite (who were skilled workers protesting at the replacement of their jobs with unskilled workers thanks to new inventions), you have no skill. However neither are those using imperial, as metric is basically just another language for day to day stuff, like speed limits - not a new labour saving invention that means that the skilled workers can be replaced by badly-trained monkeys.

I think, what you meant to say was either: "The (posted at) 55mph (about 90km/h for those who cannot cope with these strange units called miles, that the US works with, rightly or wrongly) 'S' curves..."

or: "I'm a metric fascist, telling lies as it fits my reality better and insulting the opposition"

The latter seems to get your arrogant, and wrong, point across in a less roundabout way.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 05:13 PM   #293
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Picture by ctsignguy;



The bottom sign is from 1927, the upper sign is from 2007, hence 80 years difference
The poll is new, I wonder who put up the sign......
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Old March 29th, 2009, 06:49 PM   #294
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Garden Parkway proposal in North Carolina:
(Gaston - Charlotte).
[IMG]http://i40.************/11kk0nr.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 29th, 2009, 06:50 PM   #295
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Western bypass of Cary, NC in the Raleigh-Durham area:
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Old March 29th, 2009, 06:53 PM   #296
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Cape Fear Skyway near Wilmington, NC.
[IMG]http://i44.************/vcz6oi.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 29th, 2009, 06:54 PM   #297
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Monroe bypass near Charlotte, NC.
[IMG]http://i41.************/iqdd77.jpg[/IMG]
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Old March 29th, 2009, 07:43 PM   #298
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NC's freeway proposals are here (look at the Vision Plan maps) and extreme. They seem to really love to build roads (and rail) there.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 07:50 PM   #299
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Well, North Carolina is a fast growing region with several larger cities. Apparantly, there's no lack of funding over there.
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Old March 29th, 2009, 09:30 PM   #300
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Well, North Carolina is a fast growing region with several larger cities. Apparantly, there's no lack of funding over there.
Trust me, there is. NC does have a fairly high state gas tax, but it has been raided on a number of occasions to make up general-fund deficits, and construction inflation has seriously eroded the purchasing power of the remainder. The plans on paper are ambitious but quite a few of the freeway proposals have been pushed into "post years" in the TIP. NCDOT let a large number of medium-sized turnkey construction contracts in 2002-04 but afterwards there was a drought of large contracts which has broken only in the last couple of years.

At least two of the proposals diagrammed above are being developed by the NC Turnpike Authority--which means bonds to finance construction, being done through design-build contracts, and then paid off through electronic tolling. I have my doubts about the NCTA's business case for some of these roads. In the last couple of years there was a minor scandal when revenue estimates for the NCTA's part of I-540 indicated that it would need state subsidy to meet the debt payments.
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