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Old June 2nd, 2011, 07:21 PM   #1141
geogregor
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Surel View Post
I would agree that in Virginia is that a mountain perhaps, but there are places in the world where such altitude would be considered deep depression. Everything is relative...
Come on, Chris is from Netherlands
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 08:02 PM   #1142
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Come on, Chris is from Netherlands
He's from a country where the highest point is -2 meters
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 08:08 PM   #1143
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I believe the common accepted term is that anything over 1500 m altitude is a "mountain". Otherwise they're hills. Of course there are also areas where the snow-capped peaks of the Alps would just be the valley floor, but that's comparing apples and oranges.
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 10:04 PM   #1144
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
I believe the common accepted term is that anything over 1500 m altitude is a "mountain". Otherwise they're hills. Of course there are also areas where the snow-capped peaks of the Alps would just be the valley floor, but that's comparing apples and oranges.
Now why would the cut-off be in meters, seeing as how countries where English is the first language (reminder: the Netherlands is not such a country) did not traditionally use meters, and the two (by far) most populated still don't? Anyhow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill (see under terminology).
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Old June 2nd, 2011, 10:13 PM   #1145
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I was merely noting that we also have to look at the relative altitude, compared with the surroundings, not only at the absolute sea level. And I made this remark having in mind that e.g. the lowest point in Czech Republic 115 meters above the sea leve would be considered at least a hill, maybe a mountain in the Netherlands. Its slightly off topic, but I found this table rather interesting: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...y_lowest_point

To be really bitchy... from wiki:
In the Oxford English Dictionary a mountain is defined as "a natural elevation of the earth surface rising more or less abruptly from the surrounding level and attaining an altitude which, relatively to the adjacent elevation, is impressive or notable
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Old June 5th, 2011, 12:19 AM   #1146
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Old June 5th, 2011, 03:43 AM   #1147
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Awesome!
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Old June 6th, 2011, 11:01 PM   #1148
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Now why would the cut-off be in meters, seeing as how countries where English is the first language (reminder: the Netherlands is not such a country) did not traditionally use meters, and the two (by far) most populated still don't? Anyhow: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hill (see under terminology).
Because it is scientific, and India uses metric
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Old June 6th, 2011, 11:32 PM   #1149
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Because it is scientific, and India uses metric
But the difference between "hill" and "mountain" is a matter of language, not science, going back to long before the metric system was a glimmer in the eye of the French. If there were a precise mathematical cut-off - which there isn't - surely it would be something more, well, English like half a mile.

And India is not a country where English is the first language.
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Old June 7th, 2011, 12:19 AM   #1150
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I think that it would simply vary by region and would never be exact if you're talking in everyday conversations.

And millions in India speak English as their first language, its jsut not the majority language at home, but it is the largest English speaking country. I have lots of Indian freinds, some speak English as their first language, some speak other languages, such as Hindi or Gujurati
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Old June 7th, 2011, 04:37 AM   #1151
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Very few Indians speak English as a first language.
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Old June 7th, 2011, 04:48 AM   #1152
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Does anyone know of project/works on I-26 Kingsport-Charleston?
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Old June 7th, 2011, 05:33 AM   #1153
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Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I think that it would simply vary by region and would never be exact if you're talking in everyday conversations.
Which is really my point: the message I was responding to was suggesting that there was an exact numerical cut-off that was "commonly accepted." Which just isn't true. The fact that it was suggested that said cut-off would be in metric.... And it's not something that could be legislated now (well, the U.S. Geological Survey, for example, could announce that the following elevations that have always been considered hills are now mountains, or vice versa, but I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for people in the area to change their usage).

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
And millions in India speak English as their first language, its jsut not the majority language at home, but it is the largest English speaking country. I have lots of Indian freinds, some speak English as their first language, some speak other languages, such as Hindi or Gujurati
The number of people in India who speak English as their first language, according to Wikipedia, is smaller than the population of Wolverhampton.* And with all due respect to Chris and your Indian friends, it's native speakers who get to decide the vocabulary of a language.

*http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...ing_population
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._by_population
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Old June 7th, 2011, 10:38 AM   #1154
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Amazing how upset people get over trivial things such as the metric / imperial system that has been discussed about 200 times before here.
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Old June 7th, 2011, 12:47 PM   #1155
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please delete
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Old June 7th, 2011, 12:57 PM   #1156
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Which is really my point: the message I was responding to was suggesting that there was an exact numerical cut-off that was "commonly accepted." Which just isn't true. The fact that it was suggested that said cut-off would be in metric....
In Italy, for statistical and economic reasons, there is a legal limit between mountain and hill: it is 600m in Northern Italy and 700m in Central, Southern and Insular Italy.
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Old June 7th, 2011, 03:55 PM   #1157
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Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Amazing how upset people get over trivial things such as the metric / imperial system that has been discussed about 200 times before here.
"Upset?" You said something frankly absurd about what is "commonly accepted" by speakers of a language that isn't yours (however near-perfect your command of it may be, which is impressive). I would never be so presumptuous as to make authoritative pronouncements about the vocabulary and usage of a language that's not my own (French, for example, even though I'm pretty good at it), particularly when there are native speakers present. Does a native speaker not have the right to say, sorry, you're wrong?

Sorry to be blunt....
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Old June 7th, 2011, 04:22 PM   #1158
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Bullshit. English IS my language, and that of most other Americans, Brits, Australians, etc. To people in the Netherlands, however good their command of it (in some but by no means all cases) may be, it isn't.

I've said it before and I've said it again: English is not an Esperanto for continentals who are too lazy to actually learn their neighbors' languages. Usage in ANY language is what its native speakers make it; it's up to everyone else to conform to that usage the best they can, not to sit on forums like this one saying ridiculous and untrue things like "no one says 'Cologne' any more." The same principle applies to me when I'm using one of the several European languages I've tried to learn, of course.

I'm not apologizing. The idea that there is a precise, arbitrary numerical point at which a hill becomes a mountain is untrue in English, no matter what people in Holland may think. And the idea that such a cutoff would be in a measurement system that was foreign to English-speakers until fairly recently just makes no sense.

ALSO: I did not make a big deal of it. (And I'm sure it was a perfectly "innocent" statement, albeit not "reasonable.") I responded. Once. Suddenly four days later everyone notices and starts piling on. Forgive the hell out of me for disagreeing with a non-English-speaker about a matter of English vocabulary; I should have known better. (rolleyes)
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Old June 7th, 2011, 04:32 PM   #1159
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
"Upset?" You said something frankly absurd about what is "commonly accepted" by speakers of a language that isn't yours (however near-perfect your command of it may be, which is impressive). I would never be so presumptuous as to make authoritative pronouncements about the vocabulary and usage of a language that's not my own (French, for example, even though I'm pretty good at it), particularly when there are native speakers present. Does a native speaker not have the right to say, sorry, you're wrong?
Sorry to be blunt....
Sorry, but measurement system has nothing to do with language. It is determined by rules and regulation and as far as I know only two countries in the world didn't go officially metric; USA and Burma (or Myanmar if you prefer).
UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, all English speaking countries, are metric. Even if in some situations imperial units are still in use (like on British roads).
There is no reason to go mad about Chris comment, he is right, all this metric vs imperial discussions are pointless on road forum.

Now, can we go back on topic of roads?
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Old June 7th, 2011, 04:39 PM   #1160
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Originally Posted by geogregor View Post
Sorry, but measurement system has nothing to do with language. It is determined by rules and regulation and as far as I know only two countries in the world didn't go officially metric; USA and Burma (or Myanmar if you prefer).
UK, Australia, Canada, New Zealand, all English speaking countries, are metric. Even if in some situations imperial units are still in use (like on British roads).
There is no reason to go mad about Chris comment, he is right, all this metric vs imperial discussions are pointless on road forum.

Now, can we go back on topic of roads?
I'M NOT MAD (although I'm getting there). But usage isn't legislated like that. Read back: the question was the meaning of the words "hill" and "mountain." Which I took as meaning the meaning of the words as they're actually used. If the people of northeastern Pennsylvania call the Poconos "mountains," mountains they will be, even if the Pennsylvania legislature, Congress, the Oxford English Dictionary and half of the population of the Netherlands all decree otherwise.

THAT'S ALL I WAS SAYING AND I'M DROPPING OUT OF THIS DISCUSSION THAT HAS BECOME RIDICULOUS.

Capisce?
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