daily menu » rate the banner | guess the city | one on oneforums map | privacy policy | DMCA | news magazine | posting guidelines

Go Back   SkyscraperCity > Infrastructure and Mobility Forums > Highways & Autobahns

Highways & Autobahns All about automobility



Global Announcement

As a general reminder, please respect others and respect copyrights. Go here to familiarize yourself with our posting policy.


Reply

 
Thread Tools
Old October 8th, 2011, 05:57 AM   #1281
Trilesy
Registered User
 
Trilesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 116
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
But it doesn't take a genius to know that an upside-down red triangle* still means "yield" even if YIELD isn't spelled out in it...And frankly, the number in the middle of the sign intuitively suggests that it's the speed limit (although an American would need to remember to convert from mph to kmph). Those standardized pictographic European road signs are much more intuitive than many American ones...it's the nonstandard ones that muck everything up.
_________
* I was about to use a more colorful term utilizing a bilingual pun...an "English fanny" haha...
Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Agree. The examples that Trilesy provided have to be memorised - regardless if something is written there or not. That is because when you are several hundred metres away, you absolutely cannot read what the sign says but you are able to recognise what type it is because of its shape and colour (red triangle with or without "Yield", red circle or white rectangle). Contrary to what some people say, Americans learn to recognise traffic signs by their shape and colour - even if it has much more textual information compared to European ones. Even if you remove "Speed limit" text from the US speed limit sign, people will still know it is a speed limit sign - and how would this be different from a European red circle?
I was a little sarcastic saying that Americans don't have to memorize anything. Of course, they do, but to a much lesser extant than drivers in Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there is a greater variety of signs in Europe compared to the U.S. I have no clue what some signs even mean, like these for example.



And without reading a book you can hardly guess what they are. Most signs in the U.S. are very simple and logical. You pretty much know the meaning just by looking or reading.
Trilesy no está en línea   Reply With Quote

Sponsored Links
Old October 8th, 2011, 05:58 AM   #1282
diablo234
Oh No He Didn't
 
diablo234's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Posts: 5,297

The European Speed Limit sign looks too similar to many State Highway signs to be used in the US.

However the Canadian Speed Limit sign could be used instead.

diablo234 no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 05:53 PM   #1283
hammersklavier
Feral
 
hammersklavier's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 597
Likes (Received): 423

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilesy View Post
I was a little sarcastic saying that Americans don't have to memorize anything. Of course, they do, but to a much lesser extant than drivers in Europe.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there is a greater variety of signs in Europe compared to the U.S. I have no clue what some signs even mean, like these for example.



And without reading a book you can hardly guess what they are. Most signs in the U.S. are very simple and logical. You pretty much know the meaning just by looking or reading.
That middle one is the "End of Speed Limits" sign on the German Autobahn, and the two to its right I'm pretty sure are types of caution signs. To the left--I have no idea.

Anyway, it's also inculturation. Someone who's been looking at those signs from birth are going to know exactly what they mean right away, but may well have a difficult time with some U.S. signs. For example:
hammersklavier no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 05:58 PM   #1284
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

These European signs are much easier to understand than textual signs in 25 languages.

All text in this photo can be replaced by this single sign:

Last edited by ChrisZwolle; October 8th, 2011 at 06:07 PM.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 06:12 PM   #1285
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Quote:
Originally Posted by hammersklavier View Post
That middle one is the "End of Speed Limits" sign on the German Autobahn, and the two to its right I'm pretty sure are types of caution signs. To the left--I have no idea.

Anyway, it's also inculturation. Someone who's been looking at those signs from birth are going to know exactly what they mean right away, but may well have a difficult time with some U.S. signs. For example:
I believe the two yellow-diamond ones announce the beginning and end of reduced-speed zones. Perhaps you're entering and leaving a town where urban speed limits apply. You'll notice such diamond signs nowadays (without the white border), at least in Pennsylvania and I believe Maryland, above speed limits on Interstates and other freeways where the speed limit is below 65.

The end-of-speed-limits sign is not just used in Germany: in England, I believe it means that a reduced-speed zone is ending and the "National Speed Limit" is once again in effect. Which seems to me to serve the same function as the yellow-diamond-with-a-bar-across-it. Someone in Europe can tell us whether there's a difference, or whether some countries use one and some the other.
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 06:18 PM   #1286
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

The white round sign with the three diagonal lines mean " end of all previous non-standard rules". It's famous from the Autobahn, because then the standard blank speed limit applies. But it can also be seen on other roads, for instance during roadworks where there are temporary lower speed limits and/or passing bans in place. These are canceled by this sign. The regular rules for that road type then apply.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 06:36 PM   #1287
jeremiash
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 482
Likes (Received): 74

It feels strange having to expain this, as it seems so obvious to drivers here in europe : the yellow diamond one means you're on a road that has priority at intersections. it doesn't have to be, but usually is, repeated before every intersection. the crossed out yellow diamond means the the road you're on no longer has priority, and you have to look out for yield signs or standard rules (priority to the right).
jeremiash no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:10 PM   #1288
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

Ah. So I was completely wrong. Not for the first time.

Well, we're not all in Europe, notwithstanding the impression the Guess the Highway thread might create. :-P
__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL

Last edited by Penn's Woods; October 8th, 2011 at 07:17 PM.
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:20 PM   #1289
Substructure
Registered User
 
Substructure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,989
Likes (Received): 10243

As Chris said, this is a matter of international standard. European signs could be used all over the planet and keep their meaning, while the US signs, while indeed very practical, are limited to English speaking places.
__________________

Substructure no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:22 PM   #1290
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

Most British and Irish people would have no idea what the priority sign meant, and I have only seen it once in Portugal.

The middle sign is end of un-normal restrictions, except for in the UK where it means National Speed Limit (leaglly, 70 on dual carriageways and 60 on single, but not really), in Austria I think that they have that sign at the start of each village, to show the standard 50km/h limit, and at the exit to show the normal what ever the speed limit is outside of towns in Austria is. The rest of the continent puts the speed limit up at the start of a village and a de-restriction sign at the end

The next one is no parking and the last one no stopping.

I think that that American level-crossing sign is pretty obvious

Last edited by DanielFigFoz; October 8th, 2011 at 07:29 PM.
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:28 PM   #1291
Penn's Woods
Deadpan Snarker
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: Philadelphia
Posts: 6,241
Likes (Received): 779

@substructure:

(rolleyes)

Yeah, yeah. If you don't use metric and like soccer you're backwards. The continental-European way is "international" and everyone else is just being difficult. (The English, by insisting on driving on the left, are endangering people. It's been said on this forum.)

Disclaimer: the above is to be read tongue-in-cheek.

We don't actually need priority signage, since priorité à droite doesn't exist here. But I'll be sure to write to the legislature to see that it's adopted right away.

Disclaimer: I guess that was tongue-in-cheek too.

__________________
I didn't vote for him....

DRIVEN IN BEEN IN:
AL CA CT DE DC FL GA ID IL IN KY ME MD MA MI MN MO MT NH NJ NY NC ND OH OR PA RI SC SD TN UT VT VA WA WV WI WY ---
AB BC MB NB NS ON PE QC SK ---
A B CH D F GB I L NL
Penn's Woods no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:31 PM   #1292
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

In the US or in the UK, priority is assumed to be held if not stated otherwise, whereas in most of the Continent, if it is not stated its more unclear.

Portugal legally has priority to the right, but de facto its the same as the UK or the US
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:32 PM   #1293
Substructure
Registered User
 
Substructure's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 17,989
Likes (Received): 10243

@Penn's Woods : Well, I have a kind of patriotic avatar, so people tend to assume my messages mean "Europe über alles".

But no, you assumed more than I meant, the US system is fine, we just have this system because we couldn't use 25 different languages on our roadsigns. Hope this clarifies my thoughts.
__________________

Substructure no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 07:34 PM   #1294
DanielFigFoz
Registered User
 
DanielFigFoz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: No fixed abode
Posts: 4,428
Likes (Received): 890

I don't think that they would put all European languages on each sign is such a system was adopted in Europe
DanielFigFoz no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 08:15 PM   #1295
ChrisZwolle
Road user
 
ChrisZwolle's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Zwolle
Posts: 43,591
Likes (Received): 19378

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanielFigFoz View Post
I don't think that they would put all European languages on each sign is such a system was adopted in Europe
No, but you would need to learn every language to understand signs.
ChrisZwolle está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 8th, 2011, 10:24 PM   #1296
nerdly_dood
Possibly Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 951
Likes (Received): 42

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alex Von Königsberg View Post
Even if you remove "Speed limit" text from the US speed limit sign, people will still know it is a speed limit sign
False. Some states use a simple square to designate state highway (as opposed to US highway) numbers. See this page. Take out "Speed Limit" and someone might think they're driving on Route 55 with no idea what the speed limit is, and they'd be quite justified in thinking this.

Granted, the MUTCD specifies that states use a black square sign with a white circle to show state highway numbers, but Wikipedia informs me that they're not required to, so most of the time it's not used.

I wouldn't be opposed to a gradual transition to the European style of a red circle. None of the state highway signs resemble it (except for maybe the New Mexico state highways), so maybe they could start out with basically the European-style sign, but in MPH, and with a rectangular "SPEED LIMIT" sign above it. Gradually implement that, over 5 years maybe, and keep that for ten or fifteen years or so, then over another 5 years or so, start phasing out the extra "Speed Limit" part so that it looks like the European style.

Last edited by nerdly_dood; October 8th, 2011 at 10:46 PM.
nerdly_dood no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2011, 02:08 AM   #1297
Suburbanist
on the road
 
Suburbanist's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: the rain capital of Europe
Posts: 27,531
Likes (Received): 21237

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilesy View Post
Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems to me that there is a greater variety of signs in Europe compared to the U.S. I have no clue what some signs even mean, like these for example.



And without reading a book you can hardly guess what they are. Most signs in the U.S. are very simple and logical. You pretty much know the meaning just by looking or reading.
EU has 27 languages. Imagine the problems that would ensue in an Austrian highway if a "Right Lanes Must Turn Right" was written in German. Os some "Do Not Pass Zone"... all in areas with much international traffic.

The signs, in order, mean:

- end of preferential road (a black or black dotted 49/215o diagonal strip means "end of")
- preferential road (on in that has right-of-way over any intersection unless signed, regular speed limits etc)
- end of all special restrictions on a highway (not only speed, but also overtaking etc). This mean the general rules applicable for highway traffic applies. In the case of Germany, the general rule is that there is no speed limit, hence the common confusion of people from outside Europe about what that sign means.
- Do Not Park
- Do Not Park nor Stop
__________________
YIMBY - Yes, in my backyard!
Suburbanist está en línea ahora   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2011, 04:44 AM   #1298
Trilesy
Registered User
 
Trilesy's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Cincinnati, OH
Posts: 116
Likes (Received): 0

Quote:
Originally Posted by jeremiash View Post
The yellow diamond one means you're on a road that has priority at intersections. it doesn't have to be, but usually is, repeated before every intersection. the crossed out yellow diamond means the the road you're on no longer has priority, and you have to look out for yield signs or standard rules (priority to the right).
Instead of priority laws we use 4-way "STOP" sings at every intersection (on minor roads) and traffic lights on major roads which seems to be a safer way of controlling traffic than the priority law. What if you forget you are not on a priority road and don't yield at an intersection? Consequences can be very sad.

There is still a law about "priority to the right", but it's hardly ever used in a real world.

Last edited by Trilesy; October 9th, 2011 at 04:50 AM.
Trilesy no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2011, 05:29 AM   #1299
I-275westcoastfl
Registered User
 
I-275westcoastfl's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Bellevue, WA
Posts: 6,147
Likes (Received): 790

Quote:
Originally Posted by Trilesy View Post
Instead of priority laws we use 4-way "STOP" sings at every intersection (on minor roads) and traffic lights on major roads which seems to be a safer way of controlling traffic than the priority law. What if you forget you are not on a priority road and don't yield at an intersection? Consequences can be very sad.

There is still a law about "priority to the right", but it's hardly ever used in a real world.
Actually it causes unnecessary congestion, stop signs on small residential streets and traffic lights at major intersections only work great. However like here in Florida they like to put traffic lights for every little development including small shopping centers and subdivisions, then no surprise that it can take 30 minutes to drive 10 miles even with moderate traffic. Priority law is perfect, lets say you are on a light traffic road pulling up to the road with heavier traffic, you just yield, simple! If its clear you don't have to spend minutes waiting at a light. If you forget you aren't on a priority road you should probably pay attention, if people learned to drive properly it would be no big issue.
I-275westcoastfl no está en línea   Reply With Quote
Old October 9th, 2011, 05:40 AM   #1300
mgk920
Nonhyphenated-American
 
mgk920's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Appleton, WI USA
Posts: 2,583
Likes (Received): 68

Quote:
Originally Posted by Suburbanist View Post
EU has 27 languages. Imagine the problems that would ensue in an Austrian highway if a "Right Lanes Must Turn Right" was written in German. Os some "Do Not Pass Zone"... all in areas with much international traffic.

The signs, in order, mean:

- end of preferential road (a black or black dotted 49/215o diagonal strip means "end of")
- preferential road (on in that has right-of-way over any intersection unless signed, regular speed limits etc)
- end of all special restrictions on a highway (not only speed, but also overtaking etc). This mean the general rules applicable for highway traffic applies. In the case of Germany, the general rule is that there is no speed limit, hence the common confusion of people from outside Europe about what that sign means.
- Do Not Park
- Do Not Park nor Stop
The first two do not exist in North America, but I wish that they did. The third one also does not exist in the USA, but its meaning is often covered by other regulatory signs.

In addition, in much (or all) of Europe, you'll see those 'YOU HAVE PRIORITY' and 'STOP' or 'YIELD' signs mounted on all traffic signal standards - the signs govern when the signals are dark (off). I like that. In the USA, a dark traffic signal is to be interpreted as a 'STOP' sign, but that basic Drivers' Ed rule seems to be increasingly forgotten. Also, in the USA, signals will often be set to flashing red/flashing yellow (aspects that do not exist in Europe) during off-peak times (ie, overnight). The flashing red = a 'STOP' sign and the flashing yellow = 'YOU HAVE PRIORITY'.

Mike
mgk920 no está en línea   Reply With Quote


Reply

Tags
united states

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Related topics on SkyscraperCity


All times are GMT +2. The time now is 02:24 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.11 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions Inc.
Feedback Buttons provided by Advanced Post Thanks / Like (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

vBulletin Optimisation provided by vB Optimise (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.

SkyscraperCity ☆ In Urbanity We trust ☆ about us | privacy policy | DMCA policy

tech management by Sysprosium