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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:36 PM   #1961
ChrisZwolle
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Dallas has the shortest average commute times among major U.S. metropolitan areas. New York City has the longest. Higher population density + high mass transit usage = longest average commute. Lower density + lower mass transit usage = shortest average commute.

Manhattan (33 square miles) has a longer average commute than Los Angeles County (4,100 square miles)
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:43 PM   #1962
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisZwolle View Post
Dallas has the shortest average commute times among major U.S. metropolitan areas. New York City has the longest. Higher population density + high mass transit usage = longest average commute. Lower density + lower mass transit usage = shortest average commute.

Manhattan (33 square miles) has a longer average commute than Los Angeles County (4,100 square miles)
I'm not sure Manhattan to Los Angeles County is a valid comparison. (And I'm not sure what it means: is that the average commute of people who work in Manhattan or the average commute of people who live there, which would be very different numbers?) Manhattan to...some chunk of Los Angeles including the downtown...would probably be better.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:45 PM   #1963
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The average commute time of people who live there.

It's a common misconception that higher density means more efficient transportation. Maybe from a collective point of view, but people are individuals.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:53 PM   #1964
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Quote:
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The average commute time of people who live there.

It's a common misconception that higher density means more efficient transportation. Maybe from a collective point of view, but people are individuals.
Now that surprises me.

I'm sure I've mentioned here the column I read (in the late 90s, so it may no longer be true) that said that more people in Philadelphia walk to work than in any other city in the country (not a higher percentage - more people). I've always supposed that that's because our yuppie residential neighborhoods are right downtown so the sort of person who, in Manhattan, would have a five-mile subway ride is walking a few blocks here.* I'm not sure what that does to your density point, though.

*For a few years in the early 2000s, my ten-block walk was the longest commute (longest in distance) in my department of five people. I'm not making that up.

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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:54 PM   #1965
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The NYC metro policies resulted in the longest commute in the nation among all MSAs. 11 minutes longer than the second one, Chicago, and 17 minutes longer than the " 'autocentric sprawled always congested' area of Los Angeles"

Commutes on transit-heavy cities in US are always longer. The only outlier there is Atlanta, which has an extremely poor road network (be it highways but also arterials, which are lacking much).
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:57 PM   #1966
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Hong Kong has the longest average commute times of any developed city in the world, almost 20 minutes longer than Los Angeles.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 04:58 PM   #1967
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Texas is so big, its developed (roads/houses/industry/infrastructure/any non-farm building) area is less than 8%, compared to much higher percentages on Northern East Coast states.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 05:21 PM   #1968
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Quote:
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Manhattan (33 square miles) has a longer average commute than Los Angeles County (4,100 square miles)
Wow, that's interesting statistic. Where did you get it from?
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Old December 13th, 2012, 05:23 PM   #1969
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Los Angeles, mean travel time to work 29.1 minutes

Manhattan (New York County), mean travel time to work 30.1 minutes

Both are from the Census Bureau
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Old December 13th, 2012, 05:26 PM   #1970
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A whole minute! :-O

;-)
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Old December 13th, 2012, 09:03 PM   #1971
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Compare the size of the counties though.
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Old December 13th, 2012, 09:08 PM   #1972
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Yes, but if you actually like city life and being able to walk anywhere - which is presumably why people choose to pay astronomical prices for Manhattan apartments - the land area of Los Angeles County (half of which is desert and forest anyway...) is irrelevant to you. 30 minutes to get from the west 80s to Wall Street looks better to you than the 29 minutes it might take you to get from Canoga Park to Burbank. Because you'd rather be in the west 80s than Canoga Park. Granted, there are lots of people who'd rather be in Canoga Park than the west 80s, but - and this may come as a surprise to some people - not everyone feels that way.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 01:27 AM   #1973
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Quote:
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Yes, but if you actually like city life and being able to walk anywhere - which is presumably why people choose to pay astronomical prices for Manhattan apartments - the land area of Los Angeles County (half of which is desert and forest anyway...) is irrelevant to you. 30 minutes to get from the west 80s to Wall Street looks better to you than the 29 minutes it might take you to get from Canoga Park to Burbank. Because you'd rather be in the west 80s than Canoga Park. Granted, there are lots of people who'd rather be in Canoga Park than the west 80s, but - and this may come as a surprise to some people - not everyone feels that way.
The problem with Manhattan is that due to astronomical prices many people have to commute even longer from the outer boroughs.
Let say that NYC and LA are just totally different models of cities. Both have some advantages and disadvantages.
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Old December 14th, 2012, 02:14 AM   #1974
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Yes, but if you actually like city life and being able to walk anywhere - which is presumably why people choose to pay astronomical prices for Manhattan apartments - the land area of Los Angeles County (half of which is desert and forest anyway...) is irrelevant to you. 30 minutes to get from the west 80s to Wall Street looks better to you than the 29 minutes it might take you to get from Canoga Park to Burbank. Because you'd rather be in the west 80s than Canoga Park. Granted, there are lots of people who'd rather be in Canoga Park than the west 80s, but - and this may come as a surprise to some people - not everyone feels that way.
that is me I would rather be in Canogar park driving to Burbank that in the west 80 anytime of my life and I would not pay a penny to live surrounded by monster skyscrapers, I rather live in Sandy Spring, the woodland, orange county, Scottsdale, Boulder, Charlotte than NY
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Old December 14th, 2012, 05:51 PM   #1975
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Penn's Woods View Post
Yes, but if you actually like city life and being able to walk anywhere - which is presumably why people choose to pay astronomical prices for Manhattan apartments - the land area of Los Angeles County (half of which is desert and forest anyway...) is irrelevant to you. 30 minutes to get from the west 80s to Wall Street looks better to you than the 29 minutes it might take you to get from Canoga Park to Burbank. Because you'd rather be in the west 80s than Canoga Park. Granted, there are lots of people who'd rather be in Canoga Park than the west 80s, but - and this may come as a surprise to some people - not everyone feels that way.
As much as I love NYC more than likely you are either wealthy or living in the projects in Manhattan. The middle class worker can afford to live in a closet in Manhattan otherwise most of them live in the outer boroughs or suburbs of LI or NJ and I guarantee you that isn't a 30 minute drive. ;_
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Old December 14th, 2012, 06:09 PM   #1976
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I'm not arguing about the merits of density versus sprawl, not going into the economics of living in Manhattan (I couldn't do it either, and wouldn't want to: I'm a city person but New York's too much for me...), just pointing out that comparing Manhattan to Los Angeles is very apples-and-oranges and challenging the (unstated) assumptions of some people that everyone prefers suburban life (or ought to) and that short commutes would be the deciding factor in where one lives, as well as the (stated) proposition that low density automatically means shorter commute times.

Although it would be interesting to survey the subway commuters of Park Slope or my ferry-riding relatives on Staten Island - or even Long Islanders who spend an hour each way on the LIRR every day - to see how many of them, given a choice (i.e. the money to do it) between living 30 miles outside Dallas and living in Manhattan would choose Dallas.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 08:30 PM   #1977
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The Rebuilt Greenarces Overpass over the Bronx River Parkway...

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Greenarces Ave Overpass - Scarsdale,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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Greenarces Ave Overpass - Scarsdale,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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Greenarces Ave Overpass - Scarsdale,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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Greenarces Ave Overpass - Scarsdale,New York by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

Scarsdale - Bronx river underpass

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Some Misc Bronx River Parkway scences in White Plains...

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Bronx River Parkway - Harlem line and Bronx River Bridge in White Plains

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Bronx River Parkway in Downtown White Plains

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069 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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071 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr

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072 by Nexis4Jersey09, on Flickr
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Old December 18th, 2012, 06:23 PM   #1978
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A new 45 mile north-south corridor is planned in Northern Virginia, linking I-95 with the rapidly growing western suburbs of Washington in Virginia. This area lacks a decent north-south corridor, and the area is still very dependent on I-495, which has changed from an outer bypass to a busy commuter highway.

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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:15 PM   #1979
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I read somewhere that Virginia and Maryland are backdooring their way to building that Outer Washington Beltway. All these new parkways in the Northern VA counties plus the ICC in Maryland have me believing it now.
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US Top 50 Cities inhabited, visited, or passed through:
1 - New York
5 - Philadelphia
12 - Jacksonville
14 - Columbus
17 - Charlotte
21 - Washington
23 - Detroit
25 - Nashville

30 - Baltimore
31 - Milwaukee
38 - Atlanta
41 - Raleigh
42 - Miami
43 - Virginia Beach
36 to go...

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Old December 18th, 2012, 07:20 PM   #1980
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It's inevitable. Washington metro area is by far the fastest growing in the northeast. In terms of population growth it resembles more that of a Sunbelt city than a northeastern city. Though most population growth appears to be in Northern Virginia. This is also where most jobs are.
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