Future megacities in the developed world

[Kwame]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Well, what do you know, Cape Town is indeed the wealthiest of the four, even if it is in the least developed of the four countries (interesting to note that it's GDP/capita is twice that of Jo-burg).


City | GDP ($b) | Pop. | GDP/capita

Sao Paulo | 225 | 17,700,000 | $12,711
Mexico City | 315 | 17,400,000 | $18,103
Buenos Aires | 245 | 11,200,000 | $21,875
Cape Town | 75 | 2,700,000 | $27,777

http://www.citymayors.com/statistics...ties-2005.html
http://www.citymayors.com/statistics...ation-125.html

I appreciate the fact you took the initiative to do research on the city, instead of talking out of ignorance like others here who shall remain nameless.

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

It actually isn't, though. As we can see from the cities' GDPs/capita, theirs largely follows the trend of the country they are in. Argentina is wealthier than Mexico which is wealthier than Brazil, just as their respective primary city is, and if we were to include SA's, the trend would continue. But then there are of course, anomaly's like Cape Town.

It actually is. Cape Town is a great example how judging a city by it's national statistics is a poor decision. For example, you can't judge a city like Detroit, or Fresno by looking at America's national statistics. The difference of wealth, and quality of life in both respective cities, are largely different from national statistics. If you disagree, then I guess it's just a coincidence that so many cities throughout the world don't fully correlate with their national statistics.

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

And regarding your bias - your opinion was based on personal experience. ALL personal experiences are biased in one way or another.

Actually, the only city we've discussed, that I have been to is Sao Paulo. The only personal experience I've shared with all other cities mentioned were through in-depth photo galleries. Also, I'm constantly conscious about sounding biased and if you felt that I was, it was unintended.

[JohanSA]

And there you proved it to us! you will see just how developed CT is in 2010. on becoming a megacity - Cape Town will in the not too distant future form a continious metropole from the helderberg to wellington to saldanha in the north. cape town offers to people with money the same living standerd as a city like melbourne - exept for crime. but with Helen Zille or Godzille as shes these days fondly referred to at the head we will beat all obsticles.

[annman]

I have the info, for the cities themselves (municipal boundaries), not the entire country...
Don't know if it was posted before, do not want to scan all pages of the thread.

Buenos Aires:
Total GDP: $252billion
GDP per capita: $21,875

Mexico City:
Total GDP: $315billion
GDP per capita: $18,103

Sao Paulo:
Total GDP: $225billion
GDP per capita: $15,109

Cape Town:
Total GDP: $75billion
GDP per capita: $21,446

I have lived in America, Europe and Cape Town. Cape Town is developed to the scale of any first world city, so people that keep talking when they've never lived in any other foreign city (or been to S.Africa), please hide your ignorance. Cape Town has developing elements like Latin America, such as some poverty, unemployment, planning issues. But, Cape Town is by no means lesser than any globally competitive city or any Latin capital for that matter (we're just small: 3,2million people or so).

Cape Town is unlike ANY African city. Those who do not know, immerse yourselves in the Cape Town threads, GoogleEarth or just a book!

[herb21]

Just a personal and unsubstatiated opinion in terms of South Africa it seems apparant from my point of view that within the not to distant future the cities of johanasburg and tshwane(pretoria) coupled with the different "rand" areas will form an enormous gauteng mega-city. This Idea is supported by the continueous intergration of the city through projects such as the gautrain

[JohanSA]

Isnt gauteng a quarter of South Africas GDP and Pretoria and Johannesburg almost already connected and those mega projects around midrand filling up the last gaps?
BTW the only thing that makes Cape Town any less first world than a city like NY or Munich is public transport and the last spots of informal settlements . and guess what bough of them have a deadline and ongoing construction. transport 2013 to be ultra first world and housing 2015.

[Skyline_FFM]

Originally Posted by 6-6-6

exactly! definitively, Those 3 cities you named are almost reaching the 1st world catogory, everytime i go to cities like montreal, philadelphia, seattle i see no diference at all, my city has all services those cities have but cheaper.

i mean, Baires, MXC and SP, have arenas, stadiums, subway, conmmuter train, big airports, big bussiness distric areas, lots of deparments and residential zones, re-bulding the slums, important universities, big concerts, omportant HQ'S and much more while lagos, jakarta, mumbai, cairo, manila, cape town etc etc are not being developed as fast as mxc, baires and sp.

and of course, im speaking subjectivity.

I don't think that cities with millions of people in slums and tens of thousands in the streets are "almost 1st world"...
These ones are not much better than Mumbai actually! The p/c income may be higher but also more unequal, making a bunch of the population extremely poor!

[Skyline_FFM]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Again, you're using anecdotal evidence, which is disproved by actual empirical data.

Mexico
GDP (PPP) per capita: $12,775
GDP (nominal) per capita: $8,479
HDI: 0.829
Gini: 46.1

Brazil
GDP (PPP) per capita: $11,873
GDP (nominal) per capita: $6,842
HDI: 0.800
Gini: 50.5

Argentina
GDP (PPP) per capita: $13,307
GDP (nominal) per capita: $6,548
HDI: 0.869
Gini: 49

South Africa
GDP (PPP) per capita: $10,600
GDP (nominal) per capita: $5,274
HDI: 0.674
Gini: 57.8


Since there is no evidence of any of these cities being relatively higher than others in regards to their countries in this comparison, Cape Town being slightly less developed (not more, as you claim) than those other three cities is a logical conclusion.

What is the income disparities???

[monkeyronin]

Originally Posted by Crash2010

It actually is. Cape Town is a great example how judging a city by it's national statistics is a poor decision. For example, you can't judge a city like Detroit, or Fresno by looking at America's national statistics. The difference of wealth, and quality of life in both respective cities, are largely different from national statistics. If you disagree, then I guess it's just a coincidence that so many cities throughout the world don't fully correlate with their national statistics.

There is a definite pattern however, more so with the first city of a country though. The US is richer than Canada which is rich than Spain which is richer than Thailand which is richer than India. Its no coincidence that New York is wealthier than Toronto which is wealthier than Madrid, which is more than Bangkok and then Mumbai. Exceptions are more likely to be in smaller cities.

Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM

What is the income disparities???

Income disparity is measured by the Gini coefficient - the higher it is the worse the disparity.

[Skyline_FFM]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

There is a definite pattern however, more so with the first city of a country though. The US is richer than Canada which is rich than Spain which is richer than Thailand which is richer than India. Its no coincidence that New York is wealthier than Toronto which is wealthier than Madrid, which is more than Bangkok and then Mumbai. Exceptions are more likely to be in smaller cities.




Income disparity is measured by the Gini coefficient - the higher it is the worse the disparity.

Yes. And as far as I know, it is exactly the "richer" developing countries and their cities that that have the biggest gaps between rich and poor!

[jAuMeh**]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

There is a definite pattern however, more so with the first city of a country though. The US is richer than Canada which is richer than Spain which is richer than Thailand which is richer than India. Its no coincidence that New York is wealthier than Toronto which is wealthier than Madrid, which is more than Bangkok and then Mumbai. Exceptions are more likely to be in smaller cities.

Well according to GDP per capita, Canadians are wealthier than Spaniards. But as a whole (GDP, either nominal or at PPP) Spain is ahead of Canada


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of..._GDP_(nominal)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...s_by_GDP_(PPP)

[Looking/Up]

Spain 'should' have a higher GDP as it has more than 10 million more people than Canada. GDP per capita is a more accurate portrayal of how well off a country is. Sorry Spain.

[annman]

Originally Posted by Skyline_FFM

What is the income disparities???

Our GINI Coefficient is high, due to our past. We need more than just 14 years of democracy to fix all the issues brought about by Apartheid, but considering we're in the Latin American "GINI" range, don't think it's something that can never get better.

There's no reason why in 20-30 years or so we could be in the USA/UK GINI mid-range of 0.40-0.45. If we can get there, it'll be no mean feat considering these countries are the "heavily entrenched" democracies.

[City_of_Fury]

The HDI is the better way to know the development of a place. And Buenos Aires 's HDI is 0.923 (high) and for example the HDI of Singapore is 0.922.
The HDI of USA is 0.951
Sao Paulo: 0.841

Can you see the difference between Sao Paulo and Buenos Aires? Buenos Aires has a HDI like Singapore.


But we are speaking abour "megacities" and Buenos Aires has abour 10 million people more than Cape Town.
Buenos Aires also had the First Metro line in southern hemisphere and Iberoamerica.
Buenos Aires count with important services and factories. It is a global city.
Cape Town is a really beautiful city and is a Jewell in Africa but I think the Latin American Cities of Buenos Aires, Santiago, Mexico DF and Sao Paulo-Rio de Janeiro, are really in a better rank

[Kwame]

What you "think", and facts are two different things. Buenos Aires, Santiago, Mexico DF and Sao Paulo aren't in any way better than Cape Town.

[brickellresidence]

then why cape town has a little amount of tall building.bbaiires,sao paulo, mexico city and santiago has more finacial markets and bussiness than cape town

[Anderson Geimz]

STOP HIJACKING THIS THREAD!

[Kwame]

Originally Posted by brickellresidence

then why cape town has a little amount of tall building.

Tall buildings aren't what make cities better than each other, if so those the cities you've mentioned above would be better than Amsterdam, Vienna, and other cities who don't have many tall buildings. Cape Town is a sustainable city, within the ranks of Melbourne, New York, Frankfurt, and London. Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paulo aren't, so I guess that makes Cape Town better, right?

Originally Posted by brickellresidence

bbaiires,sao paulo, mexico city and santiago has more finacial markets and bussiness than cape town.

Cape Town isn't the largest business/financial center in South Africa, so your argument doesn't hold much weight. Out of all those cities mentioned, how can the next largest city of that respective country compare to Cape Town? I doubt they can.

[monkeyronin]

Originally Posted by Crash2010

Cape Town is a sustainable city, within the ranks of Melbourne, New York, Frankfurt, and London. Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paulo aren't, so I guess that makes Cape Town better, right?

Sorry, Cape Town is closer to Mexico City, Buenos Aires, and Sao Paulo than Melbourne, NYC, London, and Frankfurt.

As was mentioned earlier, CT has a GDP/capita of $27,000. The three Latin American cities range from $15-22,000. The other three (excluding Frankfurt, didn't have data on it) range from $42-63,000.

Cape Town isn't the largest business/financial center in South Africa, so your argument doesn't hold much weight. Out of all those cities mentioned, how can the next largest city of that respective country compare to Cape Town? I doubt they can.

As far as sheer market size, Cape Town has a GDP of $75 billion. Second cities Rio with $141b, and Monterrey with $78b are still larger economies (Rosario I am unsure of).

Originally Posted by Crash2010

What you "think", and facts are two different things. Buenos Aires, Santiago, Mexico DF and Sao Paulo aren't in any way better than Cape Town.

Rather subjective and arrogant, no? Of quantifiable "quality-of life indicators" which we haven't yet discussed, infrastructure is more developed in the other three, there is a higher degree of global economic influence, and murder rates are possibly lower (reliable, comparable information is hard to come by, but I've heard rates of 5/100,000 for Buenos Aires and Sao Paulo State, and 15-20 for Mexico City vs. ~40 for the Western Cape province).

Otherwise, various things being "better" in one city or another are a simple matter of taste.

[Kwame]

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

Sorry, Cape Town is closer to MC, BA, and SP than Melbourne, NY, London, and Frankfurt.

What I meant, was that Cape Town is in the ranks of Melbourne, New York, London, and Frankfurt in the context of being sustainable cities.

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

As was mentioned earlier, CT has a GDP/capita of $27,000. The three Latin American cities range from $15-22,000. The other three (excluding Frankfurt, didn't have data on it) range from $42-63,000.

I know, it's just others here seem to have a hard time accepting the FACT that Cape Town is wealthier than those Latin American cities mentioned.

Originally Posted by monkeyronin

As far as sheer market size, Cape Town has a GDP of $75 billion. Second cities Rio with $141b, and Monterrey with $78b are still larger economies (Rosario I am unsure of).

Monterrey and Cape Town aren't that far from each other with their GDP. But, I meant to type "cities in the same population range (<3,000,000)" as Cape Town. Durban is the "second city" in South Africa in terms of population.

[brickellresidence]

wat about johanesburg