Klang Valley Outer Ring Rail (ORR)

[rizalhakim]

Rail link around city to ease traffic jams



KUALA LUMPUR: A circular rail link around the city has been proposed to allev-iate congestion in the Klang Valley.

Keretapi Tanah Melayu Bhd's (KTMB) proposal for an Outer Ring Rail (ORR) network will also solve traffic jams on roads leading into the city centre.

It will boost the use of public transport, connect suburban areas and save travelling time.

ORR will form a loop, connecting Sentul, Sungai Buloh/Kepong, Kelana Jaya, Batu 3 Shah Alam, Bukit Jalil, Bandar Tasik Selatan, Cheras, Ampang and Sentul Timur.

KTMB managing director Datuk Mohd Salleh Abdullah said the 65km network would be built on elevated tracks.

Mohd Salleh said: "Now, commuters from Sentul need to travel into the city before going to Shah Alam but the ORR eliminates this.

"To implement the ORR, there must be a common ticketing system and zonal fares," he said after briefing Transport Minister Datuk Ong Tee Keat, who visited KTMB headquarters here yesterday.

Ong said the ministry had been studying the proposal, which was submitted before the general election.

The ministry would forward it to the Economic Planning Unit and the Cabinet Committee on Public Transport, he added.

"We need to study this proposal and take into account the need to have an integrated rail network."

Ong and Mohd Salleh declined to reveal the cost of the proposed project, saying that it was premature to announce it.

On the status of a commuter link to Ipoh, Ong said it would be operational in two years.

"KTMB has placed an order for extra coaches but it will be delivered only in two years."

On the RM8 billion Kuala Lumpur-Singapore bullet train proposed by YTL, Ong said the government had yet to decide on the project.

[rizalhakim]

Kereta api lingkaran luar K. Lumpur

Oleh NIZAM YATIM

KUALA LUMPUR 17 April – Keretapi Tanah Melayu Berhad (KTMB) telah mengemukakan cadangan kepada kerajaan untuk membina landasan kereta api di pinggir bandar yang mengelilingi Kuala Lumpur bagi mengelak kesesakan.

Menteri Pengangkutan, Datuk Ong Tee Keat berkata, projek ‘khidmat rel lingkaran luar’ sejauh antara 60 dan 70 kilometer itu akan dibangunkan mengikut konsep yang terdapat di Jepun dan United Kingdom (UK).

“Khidmat rel komuter secara bertingkat ini adalah bagi membolehkan mereka yang menetap di pinggir bandar seperti Rawang di sebelah utara tidak perlu lagi masuk ke pusat bandar untuk ke Seremban di selatan,” katanya kepada pemberita selepas mengadakan lawatan kerja ke ibu pejabat KTMB di sini hari ini.

Khidmat rel dengan landasan bertingkat mengelilingi bandar di Jepun melibatkan laluan Yamanote melalui kawasan perniagaan seperti Shinjuku, Tokyo dan Akihabara manakala di UK adalah di bawah tanah sejauh 408 kilometer mengelilingi bandar London.

Tee Keat berkata, cadangan itu melibatkan laluan Sentul-Kepong atau Sungai Buloh-Kelana Jaya - Batu Tiga - Sri Petaling - Bandar Tasik Selatan - Cheras - Ampang - Terminal Putra di Gombak - Sentul Timur - Batu Caves - Sentul.

“Landasan ini akan bersambung dengan perkhidmatan transit aliran ringan (LRT) Putra di Stesen Kelana Jaya dan Terminal Putra, LRT Star di Stesen Sri Petaling dan Ampang dan perkhidmatan KTMB di Stesen Batu Tiga, Bandar Tasik Selatan dan Sentul.

‘‘Kos dan tempoh siap belum dapat diputuskan lagi kerana cadangan ini masih di peringkat penelitian oleh kementerian kerana ia baru diserah semula beberapa hari sebelum barisan Kabinet diumumkan,’’ jelasnya.

Cadangan itu pernah dikemukakan KTMB pada tahun 2004 tetapi tiada sebarang keputusan dibuat oleh kerajaan.

Beliau berkata, cadangan projek itu juga perlu dibawa kepada Jawatankuasa Kabinet Mengenai Perkhidmatan Awam untuk kelulusan.

Mengenai perkhidmatan kereta api komuter dari KL Sentral ke Ipoh, beliau berkata, ia hanya akan beroperasi pada tahun 2010 kerana KTMB masih menunggu koc baru disiapkan oleh syarikat pengeluar.

“Berikutan landasan berkembar telah siap, maka KTMB telah menambah kekerapan tren antara bandar, Ekspres Rakyat dari Kuala Lumpur ke stesen-stesen di utara tanah air,” katanya.

[tomkat]

I think this proposal could be better executed if the current Ampang and Sri Petaling lines were extended to make two complete loops - East KL and West KL.

KTM should for the time being focus to improve its existing service.

[Vince]

This project makes a lot of sense.

[globocentric]

Complete lunacy. The most absurd proposal. Most people that take the trains want to go to downtown KL not around it. KTMB thought that they are very smart by copying the concept of ring road.

[tomkat]

Originally Posted by globocentric

Complete lunacy. The most absurd proposal. Most people that take the trains want to go to downtown KL not around it. KTMB thought that they are very smart by copying the concept of ring road.

Huh? What are you talking about dude? London has Circle Line. Tokyo has Yamanote Line. Singapore is in the midst of building its own Circle Line. Chicago is thinking of doing the same. And many other major cities around the world has their own outer ring rail line.

And for KL to have its version of loop line is not absurd or 'lunacy'. It makes a lot of sense. The only concern is that the proposal came from KTMB. We all know that it could not even get its Komuter service to function properly.

[TWK90]

I think the ORR is good for :

-People who wanted to travel to other places around Klang Valley without having to enter KL city centre, which sometimes, does make the train car too crowded during peak hours, a loop line will be good to disperse the crowds from occupying the overcrowded line in the city centre...

-Make it easier to change into other lines, without having to walk too far due to some interchanges that are not planed properly, for example, Dang Wangi to Bukit Nanas; Bandaraya to Bank Negara, these interchanges need long walking...

-It would open access to other unserved suburbs around KL (depending on the route), such as Puchong etc..

[OshHisham]

Originally Posted by globocentric

Complete lunacy. The most absurd proposal. Most people that take the trains want to go to downtown KL not around it. KTMB thought that they are very smart by copying the concept of ring road.

simply a talking colk joker....why this people exist in this beautiful country of malaysia anyway...?

[forrestcat]

Well, even small Adelaide have a circle line(bus service though) travels through the outer suburb so that people wanting to go to a neighboring suburb do not have to go to the city for transfers.

For a city the size of KL with may satellite cities surrounding it, this ORR is a good idea.

[allurban]

m thinks that the ORR is a great idea....but

#1 KTM does not inspire confidence in me. They dont have enough trains for existing service but they are extending the commuter lines. They could be operating the Fast Train between KL and Ipoh but they didnt buy the trains.

Is it their fault or the government's fault for not approving the budget? Wait, m thought KTMB is a private company?

Sorry KTMB, but Im not confident that you can operate this ORR.

#2 By rights and plans, this ORR should be built by Prasarana and operated by RapidKL. The need for a NS LRT link in PJ is clear, and turning this into a loop line would make a lot of sense...no need to worry about turnaround time, faster service with ATC, expanded trains, etc. The RapidKL circle line would make more sense.

Should KTM build a wider version of the loop line? Not really...a fully elevated line in the real outskirts of the city? It would be unlikely that they will get passengers because they are following the MRRII...so it is likely that this line would be a money loser.

Also, KTM and RapidKL should not be competing on this corridor. If this happens, we go back to the days of non-integrated transit. And where is RapidKL's announcement of an extension from Sentul Timur to the new intregrated Sentul Station? Shouldnt they be getting on with this project?????

#3 KTMB thinks they can make this work...but there is no existing public transport demand along this route! Sure, people travel along this route (MRRII) in cars but car drivers are not public transport users.

So if KTM really thinks there is potential for success, they should engage an MRRII bus line that would provide service and build demand...then we can invest in the rail line.

Cheers, m

[erwinkarim]

Originally Posted by allurban

m thinks that the ORR is a great idea....but

#1 KTM does not inspire confidence in me. They dont have enough trains for existing service but they are extending the commuter lines. They could be operating the Fast Train between KL and Ipoh but they didnt buy the trains.

Is it their fault or the government's fault for not approving the budget? Wait, m thought KTMB is a private company?

Sorry KTMB, but Im not confident that you can operate this ORR.

#2 By rights and plans, this ORR should be built by Prasarana and operated by RapidKL. The need for a NS LRT link in PJ is clear, and turning this into a loop line would make a lot of sense...no need to worry about turnaround time, faster service with ATC, expanded trains, etc. The RapidKL circle line would make more sense.

Should KTM build a wider version of the loop line? Not really...a fully elevated line in the real outskirts of the city? It would be unlikely that they will get passengers because they are following the MRRII...so it is likely that this line would be a money loser.

Also, KTM and RapidKL should not be competing on this corridor. If this happens, we go back to the days of non-integrated transit. And where is RapidKL's announcement of an extension from Sentul Timur to the new intregrated Sentul Station? Shouldnt they be getting on with this project?????

#3 KTMB thinks they can make this work...but there is no existing public transport demand along this route! Sure, people travel along this route (MRRII) in cars but car drivers are not public transport users.

So if KTM really thinks there is potential for success, they should engage an MRRII bus line that would provide service and build demand...then we can invest in the rail line.

Cheers, m

#1 KTM is totally owned by government, although they are a privatized company with a profit target to meet. according to their MD, they plan to go public when they start making boatloads of money. but building those rail lines is damn expensive, that's why mostly governments makes it.

#2 agreed, but this just proposal only, we'll see what happen next. hopefully with the finite wisdom they will have a land transport authority to manage ALL public transport and do the right thing: integrated public transport. but building a rail line like this is not only for people, but for freight too, which require another economic impact analysis/discussion.

#3 your point is debatable. changing this car loving people to use public transport requires a mindset change. maybe oil subsidy will be scrapped. maybe they impose congestion charges entering KL. maybe bus will act as feeder to those proposed train stations. maybe the traffic jam is that bad that it's actually faster to go anywhere it by train. maybe by the time this plan is finished, MRR2 is so gridlocked that it's not worth it. who knows.

[TWK90]

I thought the final decision to buy trainsets in the case of KTMB/ Rapid KL lies to government via MoT/ MoF?

I hope if KTMB really wants to execute the ORR, i hope the loading gauge is wide enough to enable wider trains, as the current Komuter set like the Class 83 at 2730 mm, quite narrow when compared to other narrow gauge commuter train such as Japanese E233 (2950 mm)

[Simonous]

I think this ORR is not the paramount important issue for now.. The most important issue is to extend the existing Light rail system to encourage more user to use the transit system..

The most important information i would like to draw your fellow forumer attentions are, i found it very congested in KL- LRT transit, the users are mostly travel to central of KL especially KLCC, Masjid Jamek as well as KL central..

Most of the passenger is travel into the heart of KL..anyway, ORR is not very efficient to mitigate the congestion in KL ..

Let say for passenger travel from ampang to KLCC.. or from Sri petalling to KLCC.. If they follow the ORR, this will certainly takes time for them to travel to anotehr pole of the LRT system .. such as terminal putra or kelana jaya and then go along all the way to KLCC.. doesnt make sense...

and i don think ppl will travel from Rawang alll the way to Seremban everyday..Anyway, this ORR might give benefit .. but entirely.. only minor is benefited ..

In the future, ORR might be useful becuz city development will be dispersed into suburbs area ..Anyway, The population of suburbs might not be enough to support the project right now..As population of KL is quite scattered.. I am the LRT user for almost everyday..The hot-stations will be Wangsa Maju, KLCC, Masjid Jamek, KL Sentral, Kelana Jaya..followed by Setiawangsa, Asiajaya...Most of the stations have fewer passengers..

just my 2 cents..

First time sent my comment.. Hi all~~ . Simon .. Staying KL..

[Skyprince]

Why don't make Bus ORR instead ? Malaysia has one of the best road quality in the world so why don't we make use of the good roads ?

Train is slow and to buy new trains + contruct the track is costly.
But Bus ORR doesn't need new roads-- just use the existing roads n highways.. Rapid KL only need to deploy more buses thats it.

[dengilo]

Well done KTM!!!They cant even get the double tracking going now they want this!!!!

[allurban]

Originally Posted by erwinkarim

#3 your point is debatable. changing this car loving people to use public transport requires a mindset change. maybe oil subsidy will be scrapped. maybe they impose congestion charges entering KL. maybe bus will act as feeder to those proposed train stations. maybe the traffic jam is that bad that it's actually faster to go anywhere it by train. maybe by the time this plan is finished, MRR2 is so gridlocked that it's not worth it. who knows.

That's a lot of maybes, which is precisely the problem. People can't go ahead and build based on maybes. But that is precisely what we are left with if the government doesnt bother to plan things carefully and then execute those plans to make things work.

Basically, if the government does put transport into place with a plan to make it work, then it generally will work.

Once the service is rolling, it rolls pretty well by itself.

Cheers, m

[ddes]

I think this ORR system is a good idea but now's not the time to build it.

Like a few others mentioned in this thread, the govt should expand the RapidKL rail lines and build new lines first, LRT or Monorail, doesn't really matter. And I think RapidKL should build and operate the ORR.

Leave KTM and perhaps YTL to do KL/Klang Valley commuter routes...

It isn't KTM's fault with double tracking. Government spending on infrastructure projects is a natural boost for inflation to rise that's why infrastructural projects are being suspended, slowed or shelved. Normally, govt spending on infrastructure wld boost economy... But now world is in inflation.

[allurban]

Originally Posted by ddes

It isn't KTM's fault with double tracking. Government spending on infrastructure projects is a natural boost for inflation to rise that's why infrastructural projects are being suspended, slowed or shelved. Normally, govt spending on infrastructure wld boost economy... But now world is in inflation.

Good point. The government is the decision maker...problem is that the government doesnt really know when to invest and where to invest. The double tracking should have been completed up to Penang about 3 years ago. But AAB delayed the double tracking project and didnt invest in LRT while the Ministry of Works built lots of highways, unbalancing the transport system.

now, because the government has delayed things they have gotten caught up in the bottom of a 10 year economic cycle (minor).

This minor cycle appears to be worse because it is actually the end of the 30 year cycle (major) and we are seeing some of the same factors as the last 30 years...high energy and food prices leading to stagnant economic growth and inflation....

Even worse is that the government is going to cut back on all projects and potentially bleed this country dry in order to maintain price controls and subsidies.

On the other hand, they might be more receptive to a restructuring of public transport right now...

Cheers, m

[forrestcat]

Originally Posted by allurban

But AAB delayed the double tracking project

He was not delaying...just redistributing the contracts to his 'friends'.Cutting deficits my foot.

[rizalhakim]

Outer Ring Rail line is not a magic solution
MOAZ YUSUF AHMAD, Subang Jaya

IT came as a real surprise to hear that KTMB had proposed an Outer Ring Rail line to provide a rail link between suburban communities in the Klang Valley.

My first thoughts were positive. Most of the analyses of the Klang Valley show that there is a need to build ring lines to complete the rail transit network. Hopefully this line will fill in a few more of the missing gaps in the rail networks in the more urbanized areas of the Klang Valley.

I have long stated that the government needs to treat the KTM Komuter service as our version of MRT and expand the services and improve the frequency and quality of these services. This would require a doubling (or tripling) of the existing fleet but it would be a great investment in rail transit and it would cost less than the LRT.

My second set of thoughts was a bit more sober and down to earth. This Outer Ring Rail line proposal is more realistic than the proposal to build a series of separate monorail lines that would ultimately create a 'ring' line. The Outer Ring Rail line proposal is far more realistic than the RM12bn LRT proposal from the previous Selangor government.


But the sad reality is that this Outer Ring Rail line is not a magic solution to the problems of public transportation in the Klang Valley. And as we look deeper, we have to ask why these solutions are not being found.

I know that KTMB can build this Outer Ring Rail line, but will they be capable of operating it like an MRT service? KTMB is cancelling trains on the Rawang-Seremban line because they do not have enough Electric-Multiple Unit trains. There are also not enough trains to run the shuttle between Rawang and Kuala Kubu Baru, let alone the future extension to Tanjung Malim.

And dare I mention the non-existent Fast Train Service, which should be operating right now? After all, the rail between KL and Ipoh has been double-tracked and electrified. The only reason why the service will not be operating until 2010 is because KTMB did not buy the EMU trains. If KTMB could not purchase EMU trains, why not operate the service using existing rail carriages and diesel trains?

Is this because of poor planning or because the government refused to allow the budget expenditure? Either way, KTM's planning and operations do not inspire confidence.

Other serious question that has to be asked is why is KTMB making this proposal and not Prasarana and RapidKL? After all, Prasarana and RapidKL were given the task to integrate the public transport network in the Federal Territory of Kuala Lumpur and the Inner Klang Valley while KTM Komuter is supposed to move people in and out of KL.

I have also observed many proposals to build a KL-Kepong-PJ-Seri Petaling LRT ring line, by extending the Ampang line from Seri Petaling through Petaling Jaya and from Sentul to Sg. Buloh. These lines would meet in the Damansara area.

While the proposed KTM Outer Ring Rail line would serve a wider area than the KL-Kepong-PJ-Seri Petaling LRT ring line, there will still be areas where KTM and RapidKL are competing. And we have to ask, why would the government still allow KTMB and RapidKL to compete when they have stated that they want to build an integrated public transportation network?

Competition is what gave us the poorly integrated, loss-making STAR and PUTRA lines.

Another factor that needs to be considered is the costs associated with this proposed line. KTMB is proposing a 65-70km line that would be elevated so the costs are simply going to be immense. We have to ask if there are ways to cut costs. For example, if the KTM line uses existing KTM technology, it should be possible to build some of the lines at ground level which would cut costs.

Another thing we have to consider is passenger demand. There is currently no example of a long-distance ring line anywhere in the Klang Valley. RapidKL's attempt to create bus services linking suburban areas was a failure because of a lack of demand. If there aren't enough passengers for a successful bus service, is an investment in rail services even justified?

It should be clear by now that high-cost, loss-making lines in KL will eat up money that could be used to improve public transportation elsewhere in this country. That is why KTMB and Prasarana/RapidKL and the federal and state governments need to sit down and plan a realistic, integrated public transport service that will serve the needs of the people, instead of allowing separated, independent proposals that do not create a real integrated network.

It is actually rather simple to do. Start with reliable buses and encourage people to use the service by providing good, high quality service that is frequent and reliable. Increase the reliability by having bus lanes. For this 'Outer Ring' service, buses can follow the MRRII and link with the existing rail lines at Seri Petaling, Batu Tiga, Kepong Sentral, Batu Caves. When the demand is in place and growing, then we can start thinking about replacing this bus service with a rail line.