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Old June 23rd, 2012, 03:13 PM   #81
ChrisZwolle
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I remember those Midnet buses which ran in Zwolle in the 1990's. They were considered obsolete buses even 15 years ago.

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Old June 23rd, 2012, 03:46 PM   #82
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I used to love these old Dutch buses when I was a kid. Brings a lot of happy memories. I used to be a big fan of the FRAM. These days I never go on buses anymore.
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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:13 PM   #83
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My Parents visited Cuba in June and I thought I'd share a few Impressions.















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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:13 PM   #84
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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:14 PM   #85
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Last edited by [atomic]; August 9th, 2015 at 11:18 PM. Reason: wrong pics
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Old August 9th, 2015, 11:19 PM   #86
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Old August 10th, 2015, 03:37 AM   #87
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interesting how some american cars seem to have gotten through the embargo, that school bus looks like its from the 1980's..
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Old August 10th, 2015, 04:26 AM   #88
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I think those school buses are all from Quebec actually. Look how they are painted 'ECOLIERS' (schoolchildren in French and the regulatory marking in Quebec) and "Arretez au (the missing) signaux clignotants" and how the last pic has the "issue de secours" next to the emergency exit (certainly Quebec but maybe other Canadian province. But not anywhere else !)

I know Montreal sold a whole lot of their New Look GM transit buses from the 1970's to Cuba around 1998-2000.

Is that really an East German IFA motorcycle? 150 "racing" LOL
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Old August 11th, 2015, 12:50 AM   #89
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Lol a lot of the cars look like they're from World War II or something. In short, ANTIQUE!!!

The good news though is that with the recent political changes and certain economic developments, more new cars will come.

So people there could choose to upgrade from their decades old antique and instead get a car that is more appropriate for the 21st century.

Such as this Peugeot 508 (courtesy of Peugeot Havana Cuba)



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Old August 11th, 2015, 02:45 AM   #90
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slim chance. Cuba was selling used cars in the country, something like an old Peugeot 306 for like 85 000 USD when the monthly wage is 20 USD
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-25595674
http://www.businessinsider.com/cuba-...decades-2014-7

It makes me angry to think of how these poor people are so oppressed in these ways. No money, no food, no internet, no cars... what advantage do they get at all?
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Old August 11th, 2015, 08:01 AM   #91
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
slim chance. Cuba was selling used cars in the country, something like an old Peugeot 306 for like 85 000 USD when the monthly wage is 20 USD
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-latin-america-25595674
http://www.businessinsider.com/cuba-...decades-2014-7

It makes me angry to think of how these poor people are so oppressed in these ways. No money, no food, no internet, no cars... what advantage do they get at all?
The Cuban people get no advantage whatsoever from the Castro family and their dictatorship. The castros enjoy absolute power and fabulous wealth while exploiting and controlling Cubans in every possible way like if Cubans were slaves in their plantation or serfs in their fiefdom. They accuse the United States of "blockading" Cuba but it is them who have an internal blockade against the Cuban people. Just last month, Antonio, the son of retired dictator Fidel Castro, enjoyed a vacation in the Mediterranean Sea in a 160 foot (50 meter) super yacht and arrived at a luxury resort in Bodrun, Turkey where he paid $1,000 euros each a night for 6 luxury suites for 5 nights (total 30 thousand euros) while the Cubans receive an average salary of $18.84 dollars per month with the best paid medical specialists earning $60 dollars a month.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 08:14 AM   #92
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Blackraven View Post
Lol a lot of the cars look like they're from World War II or something. In short, ANTIQUE!!!
The reason is that until last year, the Castro brothers did not allow Cubans to buy or sell cars newer than 1959.

Quote:
The good news though is that with the recent political changes and certain economic developments, more new cars will come.
There hasn't been any political changes. The totalitarian communist dictatorship remains in place and with more repression every day. Current military dictator General of the Army Raul Castro Ruz has clearly and inequivocally stated that there will be no political changes in Cuba.

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So people there could choose to upgrade from their decades old antique and instead get a car that is more appropriate for the 21st century.
Cubans cannot do that because Cuba has the lowest salries in the world with an average monthly salary of $18.84 dollars a month and an average retirement pension of $9 dollars a month. There are no private dealers in Cuba and the state charges ridiculously high prices for cars with a $40,000 dollars Peugeot model selling for $260.000 in Cuba's state auto dealerships.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 03:41 PM   #93
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kanadzie View Post
when the monthly wage is 20 USD

It makes me angry to think of how these poor people are so oppressed in these ways. No money, no food, no internet, no cars... what advantage do they get at all?
While they, indeed, got only 20 CUC = USD per month, the state subvensions provided to them by using CUP make the prices to be only 4 % of normal. Cars are, of course, an exception. Together with free education and health care, their living standard is effectively equal to that in Romania.

President Castro also said that there will be a move to eliminate CUP and that all wages denominated in CUP will be payed in CUC in the same amount. That will bring Cuban wages to the level of 500 US$ per month without subvensions. Still, education and health care will remain free, and the cost of living will be very low.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 07:15 PM   #94
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I've read that in Cuba restaurant and bar waiters who get tips in hard currency from foreign tourists are much richer than a doctor paid by the state.
It's probably like it was in the former Eastern Bloc. My father visited Czechoslovakia in 1985 and said that everyone wanted USDs or Deutsche Marks as tips.
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In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.

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Old August 11th, 2015, 08:52 PM   #95
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Cuban roads look pretty much as bad as Ukraine, except a few nice 2x2 roads we built recently. Are there any 2x2 motorways in Cuba as well?
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Old August 11th, 2015, 09:10 PM   #96
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Autopista Nacional has 2x4 lanes near Havana. There is a 250 kilometer stretch with six lanes to Santa Clara. However over the next 70 kilometers, only one carriageway with three lanes was built, which is used in both directions.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 09:58 PM   #97
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250 km of six-lane through rural country with few cars sounds almost Pyongyang-style
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Old August 11th, 2015, 10:48 PM   #98
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I wouldn't be surprised if 6 or 8-lanes highways in Cuba had been built primarily to serve for tanks or planes in case of war.
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“The transponder’s personalised signal would be picked up when the car passed through an intersection, and then relayed to a central computer which would calculate the charge according to the intersection and the time of day and add it to the car’s bill” - Nobel Economics Prize winner William Vickrey, proposing a system of electronic tolling for the Washington metropolitan area, 1959
In real life, electronic toll collection was first introduced in Bergen, Norway in 1986, and well into the 21th century many countries still struggle to implement it.
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Old August 11th, 2015, 11:54 PM   #99
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Our tourist guide in Cuba said, that indeed the original goal of the Autopista Nacional was to connect the two big cities Havanna and Santiago de Cuba to respond faster in case of an attack from USA. But the construction was very expensive and on the Santiago de Cuba side was really slow, so the works had been stopped. Of course they couldn't say that, so they figured out a story, that this motorway serves as a very good runway to possible invading aircrafts, and that's why they had to stop constructing it further.

BTW I took some pictures of that motorway, and other roads in January, I can upload them if you want.
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Old August 12th, 2015, 05:42 AM   #100
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Quote:
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I've read that in Cuba restaurant and bar waiters who get tips in hard currency from foreign tourists are much richer than a doctor paid by the state.
Yeah, so much for the praised "second-to-none" Cuban healthcare system. While I am ready to believe they do have a good training, no wonder so many Cuban physicians are ready to perform service abroad, like in the slums of Caracas. That's one of the possibilities to surpass the Cuban wage - while even so, it is the Cuban state (=regime) that will keep the lion's share of what foreign countries pay for its doctors.

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It's probably like it was in the former Eastern Bloc. My father visited Czechoslovakia in 1985 and said that everyone wanted USDs or Deutsche Marks as tips.
Back then, your annual exchange allowance for hard currencies was fixed at a very low amount (in Hungary, to 70 USD for example). Socialist currencies were not freely convertible. Thus, even if you did have ample savings in local currency, it was useless for travels to the West if you could not convert it. Thus, such extra income in hard currency could be used to stock up your personal reserves - or to be sold at a good rate on the black market.
Will be the same in Cuba ...
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