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Old November 18th, 2008, 02:45 AM   #41
metsfan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by backupcoolm4n View Post
guess what over 8 million people live in NYC maybe we should ask all of them what they think, nyc historically builds tall towers, it is NYC and forever will be NYC trying to change a great city by whining about its very nature is childish, they can move if they disagree with the city, if we let nimby's tell us what to do hundreds of historic buildings would not be built, hell people didnt want the eiffel tower to be built ,now look at it
back on topic, great tower great city
Despite my wanting to ignore your out of line personal attack and subsequent ignorant post, i feel compelled to respond.

I am not talking about everyone in the city. I am talking about the people in the vicinity of the proposed building. Maybe if you took your head out of your butt & cleaned off your eyes you'd see that my point is 100% valid and you only make yourself look like a fool.

It is the right of every resident of a town, village, city etc to have a say in what goes on near where they live. Perhaps we should erect a sewage processing plant the federal minimum 300 yards from your house and see how you feel about it if no one asked how you felt/you were not allowed to speak up about it. You need to grow up and realize that while NY will continue to change into the future, some things are priceless and should be thought about before altering it drastically.

You must think that 2 penn plaza and MSG is a vast improvement over the original pennsylvania station.








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Hopefully i've made my point.

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Old November 18th, 2008, 04:20 AM   #42
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msg has more history then penn station could have ever had. Thats why it's there and penn station isn't. Yeah penn station was nice but it lived pass it's time. And was taking up more space then was needed. And at the time of it closing it was hardly used. I think they could have remodel it for the new MSG. But I'm sure it cost less to destory it so thats what they did. Penn Station is in the past lets try leaving it there.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 03:19 PM   #43
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Well... I'm sorry but certain things should be kept as they are. Being French, I can tell you a bit about a couple of stations in my native nation.

I'm very glad that we have kept the Gare du Nord in Paris as originally planned and built. The following link won't show you outstanding pictures but it'll give you an idea:

http://images.google.com/images?um=1...=Search+Images

On the other hand, look at this pretty hideous rehabilitation in Montparnasse:

http://images.google.com/images?um=1...=Search+Images

And now, finally, here's a masterpiece of contemporary architectural genius at the Lyon airport:

http://images.google.com/images?um=1...=Search+Images

Thank you Calatrava!

I think the original Penn Station was sumptuous.
One should not necessarily replace old with new for the sake of being 'modern' or 'avant-garde'. That's all I wanted to say.

Sorry to be a slight weeny bit off topic.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 03:29 PM   #44
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Originally Posted by metsfan View Post
It is the right of every resident of a town, village, city etc to have a say in what goes on near where they live.
sorry, but no its not. if the developers listen and cooperate with the nimbys, its just because they're nice, but in no way is it a right.
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Old November 18th, 2008, 04:19 PM   #45
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msg has more history then penn station could have ever had. Thats why it's there and penn station isn't. Yeah penn station was nice but it lived pass it's time. And was taking up more space then was needed. And at the time of it closing it was hardly used. I think they could have remodel it for the new MSG. But I'm sure it cost less to destory it so thats what they did. Penn Station is in the past lets try leaving it there.
The reason it was torn down is because people didnt get involved in their own city. Robert moses planned the building because he didnt like trains. You obviously don't know much about railroads & their history in the usa. Saying MSG has more history is just ignorant, i'm sorry. Do you realize how many troops went through the old penn station during ww1 and ww2? Also, it is by far one of the most beautiful buildings ever built in the usa. We don't have it anymore because of many reasons, not because it was hardly used, which is untrue. Please do go sometime between 4 and 6 pm on a non holliday weekday to penn station. Tell me if it's barely used. It has been the busiest rail station in north america since it opened in 1910.

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Old November 18th, 2008, 05:22 PM   #46
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Really slender for such a big tower, I love how NYC is building those lately.

But architecturally speaking - it's just a plain box. I'm expecting way more from a Foster building. I mean - there's not a slight highlight you could spot in that design. A bigger, lighter Seagram Building... We shouldn't build like 50 years ago anymore.
I agree - nothing special about it. NYC have hundreds of those. I'd rather see something more original.
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Old November 19th, 2008, 01:33 PM   #47
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Another good box for NYC.
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Old November 19th, 2008, 08:27 PM   #48
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The reason it was torn down is because people didnt get involved in their own city. Robert moses planned the building because he didnt like trains. You obviously don't know much about railroads & their history in the usa. Saying MSG has more history is just ignorant, i'm sorry. Do you realize how many troops went through the old penn station during ww1 and ww2? Also, it is by far one of the most beautiful buildings ever built in the usa. We don't have it anymore because of many reasons, not because it was hardly used, which is untrue. Please do go sometime between 4 and 6 pm on a non holliday weekday to penn station. Tell me if it's barely used. It has been the busiest rail station in north america since it opened in 1910.

- A
All you need do is check MSG history. And it was a damn train station what other history could it have. People riding the train wow. Did Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali box there. Did John Lennon play his last concert there. Did Micheal Jordan play his first game there. No all that and more happed at MSG
Penn Station was a amazing build I'm sure but it's no longer around no use of crying over it.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 12:42 AM   #49
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All you need do is check MSG history. And it was a damn train station what other history could it have. People riding the train wow. Did Joe Frazier and Muhammad Ali box there. Did John Lennon play his last concert there. Did Micheal Jordan play his first game there. No all that and more happed at MSG
Penn Station was a amazing build I'm sure but it's no longer around no use of crying over it.
We should be talking about architecture here. The events that you listed would have taken place regardless of the aesthetics of the structure. The point being made is that a beautiful building was torn down and an incredibly boring complex replaced it.
I think the destruction of Penn Station is one of the worst examples of urban renewal ever. I mean, its destruction singlehandedly started the era of landmark preservation. I would go as far as to say that it is worst crying over. Thank the NYC Landmarks Preservation Commission that shit like that can't happen anymore.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 12:57 AM   #50
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msg has more history then penn station could have ever had. Thats why it's there and penn station isn't. Yeah penn station was nice but it lived pass it's time. And was taking up more space then was needed. And at the time of it closing it was hardly used. I think they could have remodel it for the new MSG. But I'm sure it cost less to destory it so thats what they did. Penn Station is in the past lets try leaving it there.
Dumbest comment I have heard in the last month. Please MSG and "history." Penn Station is still the busiest station in the United States and it is stuck underground because of that toilet bowl (and this is coming from a Knicks fan).

You can't seriously say that MSG is there because of history and Penn Station isn't because MSG had no history at the site at the time Penn Station was there...
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Old November 20th, 2008, 07:27 AM   #51
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i love the old penn station, funny how such a stunning station is now the shit hole it is.

if the old penn station was still about, i recon it would be higher up in the list of places to vist in manhattan than grand central!
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Old November 20th, 2008, 08:52 PM   #52
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Dumbest comment I have heard in the last month. Please MSG and "history." Penn Station is still the busiest station in the United States and it is stuck underground because of that toilet bowl (and this is coming from a Knicks fan).

You can't seriously say that MSG is there because of history and Penn Station isn't because MSG had no history at the site at the time Penn Station was there...
No we're talking about the old penn station not the new one two very different buildings. Point is the 60's was the start of the jet age. Penn station was hardly being used. now it's gone, it's been over 40 years get over it.
And who to say any of those thing would of happen out side of MSG. Yeah penn station look good what your point. For them that wasn't a good enough reason to keep it around.
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Old November 20th, 2008, 10:22 PM   #53
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My point is that it was a feat of design & engineering, a architectural icon for the ages & it was a cultural loss for the city and historians as well as passengers who are now stuck in a catacomb with homeless people & rodents. The first impression people now get of NYC are very outdated airports, a run down bus terminal, and this underground rat maze. Opps!!

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Old November 22nd, 2008, 12:31 AM   #54
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No we're talking about the old penn station not the new one two very different buildings. Point is the 60's was the start of the jet age. Penn station was hardly being used. now it's gone, it's been over 40 years get over it.
And who to say any of those thing would of happen out side of MSG. Yeah penn station look good what your point. For them that wasn't a good enough reason to keep it around.
Penn Station is the busiest rail station in the United States!!

Even after the above ground structure was torn down, the station still continued to exist.

MSG could have been built anywhere and still have had all of those historical sports moments.

So New York traded the most beautiful station in America for a shithole drum shaped arena.
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Old November 22nd, 2008, 07:12 AM   #55
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Penn Station is the busiest rail station in the United States!!

Even after the above ground structure was torn down, the station still continued to exist.

MSG could have been built anywhere and still have had all of those historical sports moments.

So New York traded the most beautiful station in America for a shithole drum shaped arena.
We're talking about the old penn station not the new one. And it wasn't the busiest rail station in the 60's.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 12:15 AM   #56
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its amazing,, they find a small piece of ground, and they build a 215 meters tower!! its a very tall tower, a box, but i like the design!!
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 04:05 PM   #57
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love the old black & white photos. very nice.
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Old November 23rd, 2008, 07:15 PM   #58
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We're talking about the old penn station not the new one. And it wasn't the busiest rail station in the 60's.
It was and is the busiest in north america since it opened. For a while it was the busiest in the world, but then other cities caught up in other parts of the world.

The busiest rail station of any kind is NYC subway's GCT station complex. It has 3 subway lines (shuttle, flushing line, lexington ave line) that see an average of one train stopping every 8 seconds in peak hours. The lexington ave line alone is one every 12 seconds or so.

GCT itself with metro-north is far less busy than the subway lines it connects to (7, S, 4, 5, 6), but is much bigger than penn station. Penn station uses all of its platforms during peak hours, whereas GCT has so many platforms that it only uses a few during peak hours. The electrification into penn station from NJ used to be only 3rd rail from a now demolished transfer station near newark penn. Things have changed a lot since 1910.

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Old November 25th, 2008, 11:34 PM   #59
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ok back to the point on this building because I forget why I came here.
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Old November 27th, 2008, 09:50 AM   #60
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It's a more aesthetically pleasing way of crowding up the Lexington Avenue Line even more. I love the design, but it will just put even more people on the Upper East Side which may not be that good until the Second Avenue Subway is finished (if that ever happens).
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