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Old April 30th, 2008, 04:32 AM   #61
Tintin27
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BRTS worked successfully around the world at cities where automobile population was very high. The road will have less lanes than before as it is everywhere else with the idea that more ppl will give up on travelling by cars and use the public transport. But Delhi seems like an exception for some reasons.
Lack of space utilization on the existing roads.. for eg, why make two seperate shelters on the median of existing road where as all other places uses one median and if very busy then elongated shelter to segregate the up and down bus stops..

I cant see any FOBs/Underpasses for access the bus shelters. Knowing the fact how much traffic discipline is there in india, it is very challenging to first cross the road to access to the shelters.

Unless the Design is changed, I dont think Delhi BRT network will be of any success. Ppl are complaining bout roads being narrowed for busway but thats the only way to improve public transport and discourage private vehicles. Adding five lanes on each side of the roads wont be a pemanent solution instead because the car population will catch up and before we know it we will have big congestion just like today.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 07:39 AM   #62
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it's blinkered thinking to suggest that people will give up private vehicles for public transport in Delhi , they will not - if anything more pedestrians will purchase bikes and Nano's will flood city roads.

Plus the metro will be very comprehensive in covering every part of the city and people desirous of using public transport will use that , sure bus passengers would increase but not enough to justify reducing of road space for cars and bikes , that is not done.

If BRT must be built then it would be much better to utilise space on both sides of the roads rather than the center and feel a few trees and bring down illegal shops for them .

You people tell me how foot over bridges and signal cycle reworking will bring an end to the chaos , any bright ideas ??
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Old April 30th, 2008, 07:44 AM   #63
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Picture from TOI



Formal opening of BRT put on hold



Fate Of Other Bus Corridors in Delhi Depends On Success Of Trial Run


TIMES NEWS NETWORK



New Delhi: As the mess on the new Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) corridor continued to ground commuters, Delhi chief minister Shiela Dikshit made it clear that there will be ‘‘no formal inauguration’’ of the 5.6-km corridor, as was proposed earlier, till the stretch becomes ‘‘trouble free’’. In a cabinet meeting on Monday, Dikshit asserted that all ongoing construction activity on the pilot project had been stopped and the other proposed corridors put on hold till the trial stretch succeeded.
The showcase project of the government was supposed to be inaugurated in the first week of May. But after the trial runs — which began on April 19 — spelled absolute chaos on the stretch between Ambedkar Nagar and Moolchand, the government put the inaugural plans on hold and ordered a slew of ‘‘corrective measures’’ including construction of slip roads and foot overbridges (FOBs) to set things right.
According to sources, a lot of concern was shown by Dikshit’s cabinet colleagues on the the workability of the corridor and the solutions proposed. It was suggested that all the loopholes be plugged within the next 10-12 days. After the meeting, minister of transport Haroon Yusuf reiterated that the government’s attempt was to add to the convenience of people. ‘‘While no fresh work will begin, the half-constructed cycle tracks and footpaths will be completed as people have been left with no space to walk. The earlier footpaths were dismantled to make room for the new corridor,’’ Yusuf said.
When pointed out that contractors were seemingly at work on certain portions,Yusuf insisted that it wasn’t possible as instructions had been issued to the grassroots. He, however, added that if work was on, then he would immediately have it stopped. Though the mess looked unlikely to be sorted out soon, Yusuf said in another 15 days things were likely to come under control and then there would be a formal inauguration.
On the corridor, officials from the transport department and Delhi Integrated Multi-Modal Transit System (DIMTS) were busy surveying suitable sites for construction of FOBs. Transport commissioner R K Verma told TOI that the location will be determined after taking into account the traffic volume and pedestrian rush, and also engineering aspects such as availability of space and road width.
‘‘A service road running from Press Enclave to Chirag Dilli has been opened for traffic. This should help ease the situation. The construction of the slip road will also begin this week,’’ Verma said. Also, work is on redoing signal cycles at the Siri Fort crossing, which is now causing more delays than Chirag Dilli crossing. The government is also putting up self-explanatory signages to inform road users about how to use BRT. The signages are expected to be in place by Tuesday.
Meanwhile, the Cabinet meeting also saw a presentation by DIMTS managing director S N Sahai who apprised the government of the necessity of the BRT corridor. Though he agreed that a lot needs to be done to make the commute trouble-free — like construction of FOBs and slip roads, he doled out figures to support the concept of a dedicated bus corridor. Sahai pointed out that 60% of the road users on the pilot stretch were bus commuters, another 17.24% accounted for those using two wheelers and autorickshaws, around 10% were pedestrians and cyclists and just 7.59%were those in private cars.
As far as road space is concerned, the presentation emphasised that about 65% of the space is still available for cars and two wheelers and the buses are using just about 20%.

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Old April 30th, 2008, 07:53 AM   #64
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I thought that the Delhi Metro managed to siphon of road traffic substantially. Guess I am wrong.

Personally i feel the motley nature of vehicles in india is the contributing factor to traffic chaos. 3 wheeler autos, 2 wheelers, bullock carts, horse buggies, cows, hand pulled carts all need to be banned on major roads. 3 wheeler auto needs to be banned for its instability and ugly looks (comes from sonia manio land). They try to take any little space and create a classic brownian motion of traffic flow. Another major traffic problem is jay walking. public who seem to have no discipline keeping to the walkways, walk across traffic willy nilly. Lastly, people driving in traffic seem to have no patience or discipline following rules. If they followed rules and signs then the overall traffic flow would improve.

I am a little distressed at these experiments on live traffic. Only good working solutions should be brought into play. Having a live experiment causes confusion and bitterness.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 07:59 AM   #65
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exactly - live traffic is not there for experimenting in any way, shape or form.

However you talk of banning autos from roads , don't think thats such a bright idea . Autos carry a fair share of passengers who do not own a vehicle and don't wished to be pushed around in buses and walking long distances to their destinations.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 08:17 AM   #66
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Originally Posted by ubermeow View Post
What i am sensing here is that: BRTS is just a substitute for the METRO. If this is the case then South Delhi will soon have it's METRO, thereby making BRTS redundant. Are the policymakers clear as to what they want to achieve by having these dedicated public transportation corridors?
Dwarka is small,bundled behind the airport and towards the outskirts of the city while South Delhi is huge, has far more inhabitants and major parallel thoroughfares. Coming to the point, you're right that the Delhi Integrated Multi Transport System doesn't have a master plan in mind and their plans aren't in sync with those of the DMRC. In the second leg of this corridor, the U/C Line 6 of the DM would be running on the median of the BRTS corridor (if built) which would make the BRT system on that road unviable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Barrykul
I thought that the Delhi Metro managed to siphon of road traffic substantially. Guess I am wrong.
The DM still has to reach South Delhi which it will via line 2 and line 6 in 2010.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 10:32 AM   #67
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zenith_suv View Post
exactly - live traffic is not there for experimenting in any way, shape or form.

However you talk of banning autos from roads , don't think thats such a bright idea . Autos carry a fair share of passengers who do not own a vehicle and don't wished to be pushed around in buses and walking long distances to their destinations.
True....this would be an antisocial move, considering how many people earn their livelihoods through autorickshaws. Besides this, it's still true that autos carry a fair amount of passengers who cannot afford taxis, but can pay for their services. So, one has to think about both employment and public that pays for this mode of transportation.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 10:42 AM   #68
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[QUOTE=Arul Murugan;20185592]Picture from TOI



From this picture it clearly shows that autorickshaws are major impediments on this stretch. Since they are meant for public transportation, I see no harm in them being run on the BRTS tracks, provided they don't jam the space by cramming as many of them as possible on the lane. If they can monitored, so that they follow a file-system, i think everybody will gain from this arrangement.
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Old April 30th, 2008, 11:17 AM   #69
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Hmm...good idea, but I don't know if it will work because there are way too many autorickshaws.

Oh, how about this, creating a separate lane for autos, Autorickshaw Rapid Transit? :P The autorickshaw drivers (not the autorickshaws) are a menace. Somebody teach them what road etiquette is! Yeah, the police...somebody teach them to be efficient! Sigh..never mind me, just one disgruntled Delhiite here.

I personally don't want the BRT plan to be shelved. The planners were not far-sighted and methodical. But with proper coordination, the BRTs will dramatically change the wretched road scenes of Delhi.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 06:30 AM   #70
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Those auto-travellers better shift to those cute-looking buses! Will save them time, money and lung cancer.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 07:25 AM   #71
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not a plausible solution is that - Children and elderly can't travel on busses and then get off at their stop only to walk long distances in the sun to to their destinations .

But certainly I agree with the fact that autos can be shifted to bus lanes as they are a part of public transport and besides the Bus corridor goes almost empty in non peak hours .

If only IIT experts had common sense.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 07:45 AM   #72
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The thing with Autos is that they always show India as "third world" in pictures. We have to get away from this junk. The Autos were a cute idea several decades ago. Now they are plain downright stupid, why? Firstly they are unstable. I was in one when it overturned, barely got away without injuries. Second, the thing has a highly inefficient engine. They were 2 stroke, then the RE engine conversion, then in Delhi they converted them to natural gas. All kinds of contortions for a vehicle that barely is in keeping with modern times. Tata's Nano should replace this utter crap. Most Autos are owned by the usual cabal of thugs (politicians) and policeman. Trotting out the old slogan of employment is passe. The same tired arguments were made for retail revolution. Actually the people "employed" in countries like Singapore happen to be the "same numbers", they drive clean well maintained taxis and don't cheat their customers. They seem to be making a nice living there. Having taxis that are clean, green and with a reliable meter system would go a long way.

Seeing so many buses bunched up to together tells me that the route timing plan is messed up with most buses turning up at the same time perhaps. Metros need a more intergrated outlook on traffic planning. Bus timing, traffic light synchronization, peak hour traffic management are all timely topics to be addressed very urgently.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 08:33 AM   #73
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AC buses to beat corridor heat

Quote:
New Delhi: There is some respite coming the way for commuters stuck in unending traffic jams on the pilot Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) corridor. By the end of the week, five airconditioned buses will start plying on four routes traversing the length of the 5.6 km long corridor. Incidentally, this is the first time the Capital will have state-run AC buses plying as part of the bus-based public transport fleet.
The buses, part of Delhi Transport Corporation’s new low-floor fleet, will ply on four routes — 419, 423, 521, 522 — which run along the entire length of the corridor. The fare structure has been fixed between Rs 10 and Rs 25 for the journey, depending on the distance
Another flyover to ease BRT mess

Quote:
New Delhi: At their wit’s end in dealing with the heavy traffic volume on the BRT corridor which continues to be marked by jams and delays, the government has initiated a slew of measures to make the corridor work at any cost. The latest are road widening at the Siri Fort intersection, construction of a grade separator on Outer Ring Road and intelligent traffic signals throughout the corridor.
Highest on the priority list of the transport department is sorting out the trouble at Siri Fort crossing, which is causing maximum delays. The signal cycles at the crossing are being reworked, and on Wednesday work was also started on widening the main intersection. ‘‘The idea is to provide more space for vehicles in the MV lanes so that the throughput increases and the traffic waiting at the signal clears out faster,’’ said R K Verma, secretary-cum-commissioner, transport. Similar changes are also being planned at the Moolchand crossing.
The slip road being constructed parallel to the corridor — from Press Enclave to Outer Ring Road — is expected to be ready in the next two months. The road alignment crosses a drain and some DJB work area; hence construction can’t be completed before that.
Now, the government is also looking at providing a flyover with clover leaves at the point where this road meets Outer Ring Road. Since a large number of vehicles from Press Enclave are headed for Nehru Place, the clover leaf will provide a long-term solution for the mess at Chirag Dilli crossing. The blueprint for the flyover is being drawn up by DIMTS, but it is not finalised yet, said officials.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 10:11 AM   #74
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Originally Posted by zenith_suv View Post
not a plausible solution is that - Children and elderly can't travel on busses and then get off at their stop only to walk long distances in the sun to to their destinations .

But certainly I agree with the fact that autos can be shifted to bus lanes as they are a part of public transport and besides the Bus corridor goes almost empty in non peak hours .

If only IIT experts had common sense.
poor children. school buses should be allowed on the BRT lanes, if they are not.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 07:47 PM   #75
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Absolutely. School buses should be allowed on BRT lanes as they are relatively safer. We shall do as much as we could to not let the kids suffer for the mess we created on our public roads.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 08:12 PM   #76
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I am curious to see pictures of this road at rush before the system was constructed. Anybody has such pictures?

Also, before the project was even begun, was this a six-lane road all the way through (excluding service lanes) or four lane road? My memory (from 2000 when I was last here) says it was a four-lane road, but I could be wrong.

Last edited by Sridhar; May 1st, 2008 at 08:25 PM.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 08:21 PM   #77
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Choked roads



Cyclist in BRT lane


Clueless traffic cops


Green lane was supposed to be for cyclists, but motorists occupied this lane too


Lack of civic sense



whom to blame....check the debate at ibn live http://www.ibnlive.com/videos/63857/...etro-mess.html
that is awful situation, i do not envythe people who deal with such traffic everyday good and surprising thing was that the green busses seem to be airconditioned, is it true. Also how much do they cost to travel in them. I will say london can use this air con busses specially in summer
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Old May 1st, 2008, 08:58 PM   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by qwertyasd View Post
poor children. school buses should be allowed on the BRT lanes, if they are not.
Quote:
Originally Posted by ramkan View Post
Absolutely. School buses should be allowed on BRT lanes as they are relatively safer. We shall do as much as we could to not let the kids suffer for the mess we created on our public roads.
School buses can use the BRT lanes. Infact you can even see one (in yellow) in the pic quoted by Ubermeow.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sridhar View Post
Also, before the project was even begun, was this a six-lane road all the way through (excluding service lanes) or four lane road? My memory (from 2000 when I was last here) says it was a four-lane road, but I could be wrong.
The corridor from Moolchand to Chirag Dilli used to be 6 laned. I am not sure about the stretch from Chirag Dilli to Ambedkar Nagar since I've just used it a couple of times. I'd guess it was 6 laned as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by channel
that is awful situation, i do not envythe people who deal with such traffic everyday good and surprising thing was that the green busses seem to be airconditioned, is it true.
They aren't air conditioned though I thought they were. In the article posted by Euromast, it says that they're going to introduce some AC buses now.
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Old May 1st, 2008, 09:14 PM   #79
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^ These Lo flo buses are lot of 525 buses ordered by DTC and out of which 25 are AC.Then there is further order of 4500 buses [Low floor 1500(Non AC) & 1000(AC);remaining 1000 are non AC semi low floor] To be delivered by 2010 i think
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Old May 2nd, 2008, 08:24 AM   #80
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Bus rams into BRT stand, drivers blame faulty design
TIMES NEWS NETWORK

New Delhi: A bus packed with commuters, a narrow corridor with little space to manoeuvre and people running to a bus stop located in the middle of the road — it’s a tragedy waiting to happen. More than 100 people — bus passengers and pedestrians — had a miraculous escape when a Delhi Transport Corporation bus crashed into a bus shelter near Press Enclave on the pilot Bus Rapid Transit (BRT) corridor on Thursday morning after its brakes failed.
Fortunately, no one was injured in the accident. But eyewitnesses said a major tragedy was averted as the bus stop was packed with commuters and there were pedestrians walking in the bus lane too, minutes before the bus arrived.
The accident comes barely two days after a Blueline bus slammed into the railings on the corridor near Madangir while trying to save some people crossing the road in the bus lane. Two people were injured in the accident and one man lost his toes. Both accidents were similar in as much as they were caused by buses trying to avoid hitting pedestrians in the bus lane.
Thursday’s accident took place around 9.30am, a time when the corridor is bustling with people crossing the road, waiting at bus shelters and stuck in jams in the non-bus lanes. According to police, the bus was moving towards Chirag Dilli crossing when the driver realized that he was unable to apply the brakes and had lost control over the bus. Said the bus conductor, Mukesh Kumar: ‘‘Just ahead of the Press Enclave crossing, the brakes failed. The driver tried his best to stop but it was impossible. We saw two people crossing the road ahead of us and to save their lives, he swerved to the right and stopped the bus, which had climbed on to the bus shelter and rammed into the railings.’’
Eyewitness accounts revealed that the bus shelter was full of people. And the bus, plying on Route 544 between Ambedkar Nagar and Sarojini Nagar terminals, was packed.
Rs 200cr flyover to save Rs 60cr killer stretch
Determined to make the BRT corridor work at any cost, the Delhi government is even considering the option of building a clover-leaf flyover at Chirag Dilli. This project may cost the government a whopping Rs 200 crore. But government officials as well as Congress leaders are not sure whether this could salvage the Rs 60 crore corridor. P 2 Rush-hour accident could have taken a heavy toll
New Delhi: A DTC bus crashed into a bus shelter near Press Enclave on the pilot BRT corridor on Thursday. Said Anil Kumar Gupta, a traffic marshal who witnessed the incident: ‘‘This happened during the peak morning hours and there must have been around 50 people at the bus shelter. It stopped right before the main shaded area of the stop. Luckily, no one was standing there. If the bus had gone a little further, a terrible accident could have happened. All the commuters at the bus stop seemed terrified.’’
A police official said that no case had been registered and a technical inspection of the bus had confirmed that the accident was caused due to a brake failure.
Since the trial run of the corridor began, there has been a lot of criticism about the location of the bus lanes and shelters — in the middle of the road. As pedestrians are finding it difficult to cross the busy road to get to the bus stops — people can be seen running through the bus lanes and even jumping over railings in desperation — the common perception is that the flawed design has made the road more prone to accidents.
Thursday’s accident is a case in point as the DTC bus had no option but to ram into the stand to stop.
‘‘The way the strong steel railings have been damaged, it is evident that anyone standing behind them would have been crushed to death. It’s a miracle that people were huddled towards the centre of the stop at the time of the accident,’’ said a police officer.
Bus drivers using the corridor daily feel the faulty design is to blame for such accidents.
‘‘The bus lane becomes narrower as it approaches a bus shelter due to which one has to be extremely careful while manoeuvring the vehicle. Even a slight movement of the steering wheel can result in the bus crashing into the bus shelter. I go over the orange bollards put up before the bus stops daily since there is no space for the bus,’’ said Zile Singh, a DTC driver on route 423.
Several school buses plying in the corridor are forced to drop children at the bus shelters, and many of them can be spotted crossing the road at places other than the zebra crossings.
‘‘I dropped my eight-yearold daughter just half an hour before the accident at the same stop. Such an accident could have proved fatal for us,’’ said Pinky Arora, a resident of Sheikh Sarai.
Had the bus not crashed into the bus stop, it would have either gone over the low concrete medians into the MV lanes to damage vehicles or hit other buses ahead at the traffic signal, both of which could have proved fatal.
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