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Old April 26th, 2008, 06:04 PM   #21
Ohno
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Nice pictures.
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Old April 26th, 2008, 09:19 PM   #22
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Quote:
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There has been anti-French protests in China lately, however if you are only getting your news from ABC then you are not likely to know about it.
Anti-French protests? Yeah I heard on the radio there apparently some who are doing a French boycott. Good luck with that. Like some Americans boycotting French stuff over not supporting Iraq. Childish.

Of course the PRC government would allow anti-French protests. It's not undermining the PRC government's authority. In fact it's probably what they want to see, more anti-western, anti-Japanese, anti-foreign sentiment. Anything for the Chinese people to forget that their government isn't elected and isn't accountable to them. I doubt a June 4 1989 crackdown will happen again; the government of then isn't the same as now, but I also doubt they will let a mass demonstration for real democracy.

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Anyways once I saw a paper for CRITICIZING China for having over 60000 protests annually, apparently the country with the most number of protests in the world. I am not exactly sure how they got that number, but it must be stupid to claim Chinese cannot do the same in China, maybe not to the extent of violence as what have been happening in London and Paris.
Sources? "I saw a paper" is about as credible as CNN's coverage sometimes. I'm sure they're many protests in China, especially in the rural areas where the difference between rich and poor are become unbearable for some. But to suggest that Chinese people can demonstrate, protest, organize, and congregate on a mass scale as freely as they did in Canberra is complete and utter bullshit. Although things have changed dramatically since 1978, there's is no freedom of speech, religion, press, or association under the PRC.

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I guess when Jack Cafferty called 1.3 billion Chinese thugs and goons, he wasn't thinking of that.
Jack Cafferty could be a moron or a good person for all I know, but he did clarify his comment, and he doesn't represent all journalists in "the west". People need to calm down. There are more important things to worry about - like the price of rice.

To be honest I think those ultra nationalists going out with their red flags are doing way more damage than good to China's image overseas. It might look good in China, but it certainly looks shit in Australia - and trust me, it's not because of "western media bias".

Last edited by cowface; April 26th, 2008 at 09:27 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 01:28 AM   #23
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Anti-French protests? Yeah I heard on the radio there apparently some who are doing a French boycott. Good luck with that. Like some Americans boycotting French stuff over not supporting Iraq. Childish.

Of course the PRC government would allow anti-French protests. It's not undermining the PRC government's authority. In fact it's probably what they want to see, more anti-western, anti-Japanese, anti-foreign sentiment. Anything for the Chinese people to forget that their government isn't elected and isn't accountable to them. I doubt a June 4 1989 crackdown will happen again; the government of then isn't the same as now, but I also doubt they will let a mass demonstration for real democracy.



Sources? "I saw a paper" is about as credible as CNN's coverage sometimes. I'm sure they're many protests in China, especially in the rural areas where the difference between rich and poor are become unbearable for some. But to suggest that Chinese people can demonstrate, protest, organize, and congregate on a mass scale as freely as they did in Canberra is complete and utter bullshit. Although things have changed dramatically since 1978, there's is no freedom of speech, religion, press, or association under the PRC.



Jack Cafferty could be a moron or a good person for all I know, but he did clarify his comment, and he doesn't represent all journalists in "the west". People need to calm down. There are more important things to worry about - like the price of rice.
To be honest I think those ultra nationalists going out with their red flags are doing way more damage than good to China's image overseas. It might look good in China, but it certainly looks shit in Australia - and trust me, it's not because of "western media bias".

people like you are a disgrace to Chinese race.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 01:53 AM   #24
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it was only in Malaysia where no Malaysian hold a protest (but one japanese guy did somethin stupid by raising tibetian flag on that day..)

but Malaysia as whole has no problem with China's Olympic...Go China! now chinese government should know who are their friends and who are their enemies....
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Old April 27th, 2008, 01:56 AM   #25
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Quote:
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people like you are a disgrace to Chinese race.
Well.He's free to make such a statement.If people are used to getting insults,they might not be sensible to it anymore.Just like cowface.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 02:22 AM   #26
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Canberra is at it's best in autumn. Beautiful photos chris.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 04:12 AM   #27
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen View Post
people like you are a disgrace to Chinese race.
Just a little handy hint about free speech...

If you are going to make outrageous statement's about another person, you back it up with facts... otherwise it's something called Slander.

So why is cowface a disgrace to the Chinese race?? Because he has a different opinion to you??
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Old April 27th, 2008, 11:26 AM   #28
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Ohno View Post
Nice pictures.
谢谢
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Originally Posted by gappa View Post
Canberra is at it's best in autumn. Beautiful photos chris.
Well, they were more journalistic photos, perhaps I should have taken more of the streetscape and surrounds, well thankyou, Canberra is the best in Autumn, the rest of the year is 'so so' Spring is nice though. The inner suburbs have the most amazing streets with vibrantly coloured deciduous trees lining them, that's why some houses are now selling for 3-4 million, geezuz.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:00 PM   #29
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why is this such a big deal? you have like 10,000 emotional chinese counter-protesting a few hundred emotional pro-Tibetan protesters, and only a handful of people got a couple of bruises from several brief confrontations. i think the whole thing was rather successful overall.

at least the chinese didn't all drape themselves in their national flags and chased down the pro-tibetan protesters with rocks and beer bottles while chanting racist slogans.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:05 PM   #30
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sen View Post
people like you are a disgrace to Chinese race.
i also think the price of rice is far more important than the success of the beijing olympics. am i a disgrace to the chinese race too?
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:20 PM   #31
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Quote:
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at least the chinese didn't all drape themselves in their national flags and chased down the pro-tibetan protesters with rocks and beer bottles while chanting racist slogans.
They did (except without beer bottles). Not all, but some. The same applies to an event you are also refering to.

Do a little searching and you'll find countless stories of by standers kicked and punched by the Pro-Beijing supporters as they watched the torch relay.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:48 PM   #32
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Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
They did (except without beer bottles). Not all, but some. The same applies to an event you are also refering to.

Do a little searching and you'll find countless stories of by standers kicked and punched by the Pro-Beijing supporters as they watched the torch relay.
by all accounts, there were a couple of very short confrontations between a handful of protesters, and someone's shin got kicked. wow, that's just as bad as this:



drapping yourself in your national flag is perfectly fine, however, beating people up is not.

there might be countless reports and stories of confrontations between the chinese protesters and the the pro-tibetan protesters, but most of them are really just talking about the same confrontations over and over and over again. perhaps you should read these stories before counting them as totally different incidents. better yet, before you blame either side, you should try to hear the story from both sides before making up your mind.

the issue that i was referring to was the 2005 cronulla racial riot, you already know that.

showing up to support a grand sporting event hosted by your country is perfectly fine, the people of sydney did that in 2000 and nobody complained. showing up to support your racist ideology and voicing your hate is also fine -- as long as you leave the others alone -- this is freedom of speech. but i'd think that there is a rather big difference between supporting a grand sporting event and supporting racist hatred, and it's rather unfair to paint the supporters of the sporting event with the same brush as the supporters of the racist hatred.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 12:51 PM   #33
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Why are overseas Chinese supporting their motherland considered weird? I think they did a great job too bad there weren't more of them.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 01:57 PM   #34
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didu,

To suggest I am a nationalist. I strongly oppose nationalism of any kind, be it Chinese, Serbian, Australian, American or Canadian. It's sole purpose is to exclude others.

There are various reports of pro-China protesters attending with the admitted intention of "Crushing" the Tibet demonstrators. In fact -- the only people charged with assault were pro-Beijing.

As for Cronulla, and posting a screen sized image of the riots -- what an immature arguement on your point.. Talk about a diversion. At least I can admit that those riots were a disgusting, foul event that as an Australian I am ashamed of. There were two sides to that storey -- and both sides were utterly stupid and barbaric (the Anglo ****wits in Cronulla and the Lebanese group from the West). Needless to say both were vast minorities and no not reflect the values of the wider Australian community to which they both belong. Every nation has chapters and events we are not proud of, Cronulla is one of many parts of Australian history I am not proud of. Germany with the holocaust, America with black slavery... we have all engaged in discussion these attrocities and talked about them openly. More than what could happen in China. With the Olympics bringing focus on China, it will be criticised, like any any nation hosting the Olympics. Get over it, and stop taking it personally.

It is extremely different to questioning the values of a Government who has been proven, time and time again, to abuse the liberties of its own citizens. China is a world power and Olympic host - this MUST be ridiculed. The Chinese Government supporters can (immaturely) boycott French products all they wish (lol, the modern Olympics themselves are a French product)-- but they are ultimately burying their heads in the sand and doing themselves a disservice.

I think it was extremely low of you to bring that into the debate -- while you yourself are defending the government in question -- I am not, or never have defended Cronula (it was irrelevent to this discussion in the first place). How would have you felt if I posted a pic of 1989?

Last edited by Alphaville; April 27th, 2008 at 02:04 PM.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 03:07 PM   #35
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The Cronulla issue was raised by irresponsible part of communities - not triggerred by a government nor a government policy
I still remembered vividly that image of Chinese Government TANKs and a lone protester in Tianamen Sq - that was chiling...

I think the whole debacle of the Beijing Olympics was a protest to CHINESE GOVERNMENT POLICY in relation to Tibet - not to Chinese nationals

I think it is laughable for whoever it was bringing out the Cronulla to this issue...

But Alphaville - I am doubtful you will ever able to pass on the messages to any Chinese in this issue as the whole generation wide 'screening of political messages' has resulted in their viewings... and also the Olympics is their pride and joy so f..k any other countries/killings...

I wonder whether IOC decision was a mere a joke to have Olympics hosted in Beijing or maybe this Olympics will bring more truths to the international debates?


Should this thread be closed by now or moved to Political segment (if any)?
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Old April 27th, 2008, 04:09 PM   #36
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
didu,

To suggest I am a nationalist. I strongly oppose nationalism of any kind, be it Chinese, Serbian, Australian, American or Canadian. It's sole purpose is to exclude others.
I never said you were a nationalist, nor did I say that I supported nationalism in any shape or form.

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Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
There are various reports of pro-China protesters attending with the admitted intention of "Crushing" the Tibet demonstrators. In fact -- the only people charged with assault were pro-Beijing.
I'd like to see these reports of yours and see proof of this "crushing" which as far as I know, is no more than a few bruised shins.

Furthermore, from what I remember, 5 people were arrested on the torch day, and 2 of them were from the pro-Tibetan camp. You are welcome to prove me wrong.

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Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
As for Cronulla, and posting a screen sized image of the riots -- what an immature arguement on your point.. Talk about a diversion. At least I can admit that those riots were a disgusting, foul event that as an Australian I am ashamed of.
Well, on the contrary, this is not a diversion, but just an attempt to put things into perspective for you. Compared with the Cronulla riot, the confrontations initiated by the pro-China protesters were really nothing.

I also believe that I've made myself clear that I support people's freedom to peacefully express their views, and I oppose violence. So, I suggest that you really think about what I said before accusing me of being a nationalist/extremist.

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There were two sides to that storey
You don't have to explain the Cronulla stuff to me, I live in Australia and I know what happened. Furthermore, I never said that the people invovled in Cronulla were in any way representative of Australia. So, don't get all defensive.

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With the Olympics bringing focus on China, it will be criticised, like any any nation hosting the Olympics. Get over it, and stop taking it personally.
Did I tell you to shut up at any stage? As I said, I respect everyone's freedom to express themselves peacefully. You are free to say whatever you want to say about anyone or any country, including China -- as long as you don't personally insult me. However, in return, I expect you to respect my freedom to say whatever I want about anyone or any country -- as long as it's not a personal insult against you. Is this fair?

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Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
It is extremely different to questioning the values of a Government who has been proven, time and time again, to abuse the liberties of its own citizens. China is a world power and Olympic host - this MUST be ridiculed.
That's fine, please feel free to ridicule China to your heart's content. Not that it matters but I never wanted the Olympics for China in the first place, albeit for different reasons. But again, I expect you to respect me when I ridicule Tibet, Australia or any other country on this planet over any issue that I choose.

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The Chinese Government supporters can (immaturely) boycott French products all they wish (lol, the modern Olympics themselves are a French product)-- but they are ultimately burying their heads in the sand and doing themselves a disservice.
You know, I find this sort of comments to be rather over self-righteous. People have the right to decide what they want to do with their own money, and that's none of anyone else's business. If you don't like the Chinese boycotting French products, please feel free not to buy any Chinese products -- which you are probably not buying anyway.

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Originally Posted by Alphaville View Post
I think it was extremely low of you to bring that into the debate -- while you yourself are defending the government in question -- I am not, or never have defended Cronula (it was irrelevent to this discussion in the first place). How would have you felt if I posted a pic of 1989?
You see, to properly exercise the freedom of expression which most Australians cherish, I believe that it's improper to use personal insults against people whose opinions you disagree with. When I felt that your comments were disproportional to the reality, I just wrote something specific to respond to your comments. However, when I wrote something that you felt were unfair, you accused me of being "extremely low". This is hardly fair, is it?

You can post whatever you want to post, it's your freedom which I respect. I may not like what you post, but I will always respect your right to post. In turn, I expect the same respect from you.
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Old April 27th, 2008, 04:21 PM   #37
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The Cronulla issue was raised by irresponsible part of communities - not triggerred by a government nor a government policy
So, are you saying it's ok for people to behave like a mob as long as it's not sponsored by the government? I think a mob is a mob, irrespective of the issue or the sponsorship.

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I still remembered vividly that image of Chinese Government TANKs and a lone protester in Tianamen Sq - that was chiling...
Well, I'd rather think the tank-man was an idiot, but that's just me.

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I think the whole debacle of the Beijing Olympics was a protest to CHINESE GOVERNMENT POLICY in relation to Tibet - not to Chinese nationals
Well, I guess the protesters didn't really convey that message very clearly to the Chinese nationals.

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I think it is laughable for whoever it was bringing out the Cronulla to this issue...
I think it's rather useful to put things into perspective.

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Originally Posted by Alibaba View Post
But Alphaville - I am doubtful you will ever able to pass on the messages to any Chinese in this issue as the whole generation wide 'screening of political messages' has resulted in their viewings... and also the Olympics is their pride and joy so f..k any other countries/killings...
You see, I don't actually mind this sort of thinking, in fact, a lot of pro-Chinese people think exactly the same about people in the pro-Tibetan camp. I'd be happy to keep quiet as long as you don't say something that I don't like in a public space. After all, no matter how much we "debate", we can never change each other's opinions, so what's the point in trying?

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I wonder whether IOC decision was a mere a joke to have Olympics hosted in Beijing or maybe this Olympics will bring more truths to the international debates?
You think IOC would joke about awarding Olympics?
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Old April 27th, 2008, 04:35 PM   #38
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You think IOC would joke about awarding Olympics?
They did with Atlanta.

As for our debate -Thank you for your grounded rebuttle, I can't say I agree with you, but I'm too tired right now to reply. I gotta get some sleep. Will reply tomorrow morning.
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Old April 28th, 2008, 12:48 AM   #39
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Quote:
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by all accounts, there were a couple of very short confrontations between a handful of protesters, and someone's shin got kicked. wow, that's just as bad as this:
We shoold not blame those people. They are innocent. The blame should goes to goverment of China, not to chinese people
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Old April 28th, 2008, 01:39 PM   #40
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Well, I'd rather think the tank-man was an idiot, but that's just me.
well - to put in the perspective to the world that this wa a poignant image of how the giant powerful government (with rows of tanks) disprespect its own people - unarmed... just like that - like an insignificant being

an interesting article at wiki http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tank_Man stating that this chiling image has gone through worldwide audiences overnight.

I feel for him - god bless him... if he is still alive

i can fully understand people like you may think the tank man is being idiot... it is a rather sad to see next generation will have this kind of the respect to others just like that...your own people

I like the way the gvt maintained that there was no casualties.. .lol (despite estimate of more than 3 thousands people feared dead)

i think i rest my case - no point to go further where you see no other lights on other opinion

but IMO - i think Australia should stand stronger and i reckon they should track down and in need deport those overseas students from this country if they behave inappropriately in this land ....
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