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Old April 2nd, 2010, 08:53 PM   #901
particlez
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^pure COMEDY GOLD


NCT made the initial ludicrous claim of a bad pedestrian environment based off pictures from a FREEWAY, then used multiple long-winded posts to somehow attempt to justify the initial retarded statement.

i'm not sure if any sane person could take him seriously. but that doesn't stop him from trying.

using this logic, i can make the same assertions from this picture of paris' peripherique:

what does it prove about paris?



http://members.cox.net/mkpl/europe/fr-paris-periph.jpg

Last edited by particlez; April 2nd, 2010 at 09:09 PM.
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Old April 2nd, 2010, 11:44 PM   #902
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I though I'd hear your dulcet tone someday Particlez, using the same refined language as always.

Now, Paris's Peripherique is quite crossable and within it there's an immediately accessible alternative for local traffic. The same cannot be said for Beijing's plethera of trunk roads built in freeway styles.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 11:50 AM   #903
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i love beijing
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Old April 9th, 2010, 04:48 PM   #904
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me too
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Old April 9th, 2010, 06:04 PM   #905
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NCT View Post
Compare Beijing's highwas with Shanghai's Inner Ring Road, Yan'an and North South elevated roads you'll soon see what the problem is. In Shanghai local and express traffic needs are served separately.
Exactly. "Elevated" is the key word here. That combined with taller and more densely built structures makes Shanghai more walkable:



In Beijing the express traffic occupies the ground level and then there are over/underpasses for pedestrians. In Shanghai it's vice versa:




Out of the two cities Beijing is definitely less developed in terms of modern and efficient urban planning. There should be no argument here.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 06:12 PM   #906
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Quote:
Originally Posted by particlez View Post
NCT made the initial ludicrous claim of a bad pedestrian environment based off pictures from a FREEWAY, then used multiple long-winded posts to somehow attempt to justify the initial retarded statement.
Dude. Beijing is hilariously bad for pedestrians. Not Los Angeles-levels of bad but close. Stating the obvious is not ludicrous or retarded.
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Old April 9th, 2010, 06:20 PM   #907
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The only thing that is "walkable" in the first pic is the pedestrian footbridge, in which the photographer is standing on. Take away that bridge and it's just as uncrossable as Beijing's humongous Boulevards. There is no footpath on this side of the green strip and there is a fence dividing it from the road. And how will someone be able to cross those 9 lanes without the bridge?

Beijing can also whack lots and lots footbridges all over those boulevards but it chose not to. Its harsher winter makes it less favourable to walk outdoors for an extended period of time, people prefer to duck into a heated car ASAP.

Lastly, you don't compare People's Square with one of BJ's ring roads!!! A fairer comparison would be BJ's Xidan which also has footbridges for your convenience.



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Old April 9th, 2010, 10:20 PM   #908
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion View Post
The only thing that is "walkable" in the first pic is the pedestrian footbridge, in which the photographer is standing on. Take away that bridge and it's just as uncrossable as Beijing's humongous Boulevards. There is no footpath on this side of the green strip and there is a fence dividing it from the road. And how will someone be able to cross those 9 lanes without the bridge?

Beijing can also whack lots and lots footbridges all over those boulevards but it chose not to. Its harsher winter makes it less favourable to walk outdoors for an extended period of time, people prefer to duck into a heated car ASAP.

Lastly, you don't compare People's Square with one of BJ's ring roads!!! A fairer comparison would be BJ's Xidan which also has footbridges for your convenience.
Um it's a picture of Yan'an lu which is not supposed to be walkable. I just put it there to show that the general planning of Shanghai is more efficient, and a large amount of traffic is lifted above the street level, hence making many places more walkable.

If you walk/drive around Beijing and Shanghai...do you really think that there's no difference in walkability or driveability between the two cities?
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Old April 10th, 2010, 03:55 AM   #909
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"Elevated roads make the city more walkable, Yan'an elevated road is not supposed to be walkable"
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Old April 10th, 2010, 05:49 AM   #910
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Scion View Post
"Elevated roads make the city more walkable, Yan'an elevated road is not supposed to be walkable"
Well yeah, they do. Let's assume there are 10 lanes on the ground level and 10 lanes on the elevated expressway. If the expressway wasn't elevated, to handle the same amount of traffic there would have to be 20 lanes on the ground level. Crossing 10 lanes is definitely more walkable than 20.

There's another benefit to elevated roads. Transverse traffic can cross without stopping ----> less traffic jams. The biggest drawback is that building elevated roads is very expensive.

Yan'an elevated expressway does its part in making Shanghai more walkable even if you're not supposed to walk on it. Get it now?

I don't think Shanghai is a particularly walkable city, quite the opposite actually. But it just baffles me that some people are trying to prove that Beijing is not any less walkable than Shanghai. It's like trying to prove that LA is just as walkable as NYC.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:04 AM   #911
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Nice explanation there. "Walkability of a city is all about how many lanes a person have to cross"


Suppose you are walking up Puan Lu and needed to get to the museum, how many meters, minutes would it take to do so? And also describe the route too!


While you may be oblivious to this fact, Beijing has multiple sections were the ring roads are elevated in the form of an overpass. Some of them are short while some of them are long, many of them include lighted pedestrian crossings.

[img]http://i3.************/vrzfw5.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i3.************/vrzg5d.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i3.************/vxzre0.jpg[/img]




While you are still being oblivious, Beijing has multiple ring road sections where it is sunken below ground to allowed street level pedestrians to conveniently cross without climbing up footbridges.

[img]http://i3.************/vrvcsi.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i3.************/vrveo6.jpg[/img]

[img]http://i3.************/vrvink.jpg[/img]


And lastly not all of Beijing's streets are freakish wide Chang'an Jie styled. In fact, most of the city's pedestrian activity occurs in these normal sized streets.







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Old April 10th, 2010, 09:41 AM   #912
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China reportly block 100 state firm or SOE from diving into real estate market ,according to the report from latest issue of business week,property cost in shanghai and beijing now is as expensive as in new york and tokyo,due to large part massive real estate speculation and investment by SOE,70 SOE did make profit.but this come at real cost,average Chinese can not even afford it,this also driving the cost of living.
In fact there's word for this, in china,call "mortgage slave".
Now, China may face possibility of a US style real estate bubble. already more than half office building in beijing remain empty.plan underway to rise tax of real estate development.

Last edited by Joel que; April 10th, 2010 at 09:46 AM.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 06:05 PM   #913
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirtle Squad View Post
Dude. Beijing is hilariously bad for pedestrians. Not Los Angeles-levels of bad but close. Stating the obvious is not ludicrous or retarded.
Ahahah, no, it is idiotic

We talked till death about the ringroads, the simple truth is they are and remain car dedicated streets, PERIOD....but Beijing is full of pedestrian-friendly areas, small winding streets and so on..denying this is simply ludicrous.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 07:48 PM   #914
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Ahahah, no, it is idiotic

We talked till death about the ringroads, the simple truth is they are and remain car dedicated streets, PERIOD....but Beijing is full of pedestrian-friendly areas, small winding streets and so on..denying this is simply ludicrous.
Rio de Janeiro has safe areas, Tokyo has public parks and green spaces and Lagos has rich neighborhoods.
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Old April 10th, 2010, 08:12 PM   #915
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Nice explanation there. "Walkability of a city is all about how many lanes a person have to cross"
Don't put words in my mouth. Walkability is not all about how many lanes a person has to cross. Elevated roads do improve walkability and help relieve traffic pressure. Go ask any city architect. The reason should be crystal-clear to anyone with half a brain.

I have spent time in each city as a neutral observer. I just speak from personal experience. I don't have any personal reasons to like/dislike either city, both have their pros and cons. The urban layout of Beijing doesn't count as a pro in my book.

Do you think that Beijing has as-good-as or better overall layout than Shanghai from a pedestrian's perspective and traffic-wise?
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Old April 10th, 2010, 09:54 PM   #916
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Old April 11th, 2010, 03:40 AM   #917
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hidden dragon, awesome shot!
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Old April 11th, 2010, 06:26 AM   #918
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Squirtle Squad View Post
Elevated roads do improve walkability and help relieve traffic pressure.

I have spent time in each city as a neutral observer. I just speak from personal experience. I don't have any personal reasons to like/dislike either city, both have their pros and cons. The urban layout of Beijing doesn't count as a pro in my book.

Do you think that Beijing has as-good-as or better overall layout than Shanghai from a pedestrian's perspective and traffic-wise?
Yep, elevated roads do relieve surface vehicle congestion, and in some instances improve access for the pedestrians.

Don't use the word neutral there. You used the Yan'an Xizang Lu intersection to compare a random location of Beijing's rings, from that it's clear that your book is not neutral. What's more retarded is that you still choose to ignore the designs and facilities in Beijing that provides convenience to the pedestrians, even though they are presented right in front of you.

So when your personal experience is so futile it's best not to so loudly proclaim that Shanghai's planning is more awesome than Beijing, and continues to drag more and more cities into this Beijing thread.
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Old April 13th, 2010, 04:01 PM   #919
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Beijing is my third favourite city in China after Hong Kong and Shanghai. The building in beijing are very nice. My favourite building there is the Mandarin Oriental.
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Old April 14th, 2010, 09:30 AM   #920
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First of all, I love Beijing, probably slightly more than Shanghai, where I've also stayed in the past and love.

With that said, it saddens me that they feel it's necessary to put up ropes along the man-made stream in this photo to prevent people from going into it. I know Beijing, or China in general, is hardly the only place in the world that does this. When will people learn?
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