Chennai Bypass/IRR/ORR & Road Construction Update

[scdubagoor]

Originally Posted by vijayvmail

I'm always so skeptical about leaving some reserve space on the road for future use. In no time, that space will be encroached upon. And a few years down the lane, when its time for expansion, you'll find pucca buildings on this space treating the reserve space as their own and actually further encroaching on the built up road.

If that's the case why don't they leave the reserved space in the middle.

[vijayvmail]

Originally Posted by scdubagoor

If that's the case why don't they leave the reserved space in the middle.

That's a very good idea. As of now, they can even try landscaping it

[kannan infratech]

I was told that in Moscow and other cities of Russia (in other USSR countries also), there is a middle lane within the central median, which is generally used by ambulance and emergency vehicle and the top guys like Premier and presidents (so as to have a free way and also not disturbing the normal traffic). Only in the intersections, they are given priority, it seems.

If this is really possible our planners can try the same in Delhi first and if workable, can be extended to other state capitals, at least along the arterial roads.

[Rasnaboy]

In one of the Chinese cities (I don't remember the name), they even have landscaped canals used as medians. The ways in which space between/around roads could be used is practically endless. Least of all, they can be landscaped and/or be used for rain water harvesting. Acquiring and safeguarding them is the question at stake.

[Rasnaboy]

Chennai: National Highways Authority of India (NHAI) is likely to witness a series of protests from building owners and traders against its decision to make the Madras-Tirupathi High Road a 200-ft road.

The federation of traders’ forums, building owners and resident welfare associations from Padi to Thiruninravur along the MTH Road has resolved to take out a procession to the State secretariat and organize a series of public meetings besides resorting to a one-day bandh and road-roko urging the NHAI not to extend the road beyond 80-ft.

Recently, building owners, traders and residents from Padi, Ambattur, Avadi, Pattabiram and Thiruninravur staged a fast protesting the NHAI’s move.

The agitators are now demanding the Ambattur and Avadi municipalities and Thiruninravur town panchayats to withdraw their resolutions extending support to the NHAI’s decision.

Stating that presently the road width is just less than 30 feet and there was no necessity to widen it by more than 50 ft, the traders and the residents said widening the 21-km long stretch of the road up to 200-ft would take away over 20,000 commercial and residential buildings and affect around 50,000 families. More than 60 hospitals, schools, colleges and factories situated along the road will be affected.

Federation president K Mohan on Wednesday appealed to chief minister M Karunanidhi to intervene in the issue and ensure that NHAI did not expand the road beyond 80-ft width.

The public protests became intensified following the NHAI’s marking of lands for acquisition and buildings for demolition last week to expand the road. The NHAI has decided to make the MTH Road as a six-lane road.

Source: http://epaper.timesofindia.com/Daily...=1223046515828

[barrykul]

This is getting ridiculous. WTF. Now the shopkeepers want to stall roads by their asinine reasons. There has to be limit on who decides what. You cant have every tom, dick and harry causing tantrums at every turn. These same traders don't think twice in usurping land, street sidewalks and illegal buildings.

As it is Indian roads barely qualify for international grade traffic. The golden Quad was built with two lanes each way when the norm nowadays is 3 lanes. With India's looming traffic situation, broad roadways are a must if one needs to have smooth traffic flow.

I know the UPA is coming up with a Bill to get land acquisitions, especially after the Tata NANO fiasco with Mamata TNC. They need to hasten this process and pass the Bill immediately. Otherwise we will have umpteen challenges/ court cases, all slowing down decision making and the economy.

[dis.agree]

Originally Posted by barrykul

This is getting ridiculous. WTF. Now the shopkeepers want to stall roads by their asinine reasons. There has to be limit on who decides what. You cant have every tom, dick and harry causing tantrums at every turn. These same traders don't think twice in usurping land, street sidewalks and illegal buildings.

As it is Indian roads barely qualify for international grade traffic. The golden Quad was built with two lanes each way when the norm nowadays is 3 lanes. With India's looming traffic situation, broad roadways are a must if one needs to have smooth traffic flow.

I know the UPA is coming up with a Bill to get land acquisitions, especially after the Tata NANO fiasco with Mamata TNC. They need to hasten this process and pass the Bill immediately. Otherwise we will have umpteen challenges/ court cases, all slowing down decision making and the economy.

dude, with 200 ft you could build 20 lanes in all. nhai certainly has to explain why they need so much space and also how much they plan to compensate for acquiring land.

and the land acquisition bill that is being planned, is to protect farmers interest - not the industries.

[indian007]

4 lines for BRTS, 2 service lines +6 lines width that will be any how encroached by shops ,parking +6 line for actual traffic + 2 line for future expansion ... SO they need it 200 ft

[Keeran]

The prank of litigation over land has bedeviled Tamil Nadu for far too long. This cancerous growth has pervaded every pore of the nation. It’s most cantankerous form was seen explicitly in Singur. Even a somnolent centre has now reached for the hot rod to burn the scourge with. The proposal for new laws has not come a day too early. Tamil Nadu should be in the forefront in urging very stringent provisions to give teeth to the laws.

The most fundamental principle to be accepted as an article of faith and enshrined in the law is that, land acquisition is not justiciable

In Singapore, legal remedy lies only in respect of the quantum of compensation. The amount is determined by the Collector. An aggrieved party has a right of appeal to the Appeals Board. The ultimate appeal is to the Court of Appeal.

Where urgency demands there is provision for acquisition, 7 days after notification. The administration is insulated from writs, stay orders and dilatory moves.

Section 31- “The award as made or agreed under the Act or determined on appeal, as the case may be, shall be final and conclusive for the purpose of this Act”.

Section 53-“No suit shall be brought to set aside an award or apportionment under this Act.”

It may be noted that an absolute imperative is the will to invoke the law and to enforce it. “It is not the exact mechanism of the laws that produces great events, but the inner spirit of government”. – Harold Laski. This is not to discount the efficacy of law enforcement. The rule of law is paramount. So is the fear of law. In a different context Laski says “Fear inhibits that temper of accommodation which is the essence of successful politics”. What the Tamil Nadu government needs is the will, the verve and the spine to take decisions and never to resile from them. A vision of the future, together with the resoluteness to carry out policy and programs, alone can endow a government with strength.

Historians delineated modern Europe from medieval, at around the latter part of the 15th century.They listed many characteristics. Among them were the unprecedented power of monarchs through their access to gun powder and cannon. Their authority lost their fetters. Their writ ran to the extremities of their domain. Challenge to authority was wiped out. The elimination of the phenomenon of ‘over mighty subjects’ from the kingdoms of modernizing Europe five centuries ago is of relevance to Tamil Nadu and India at present. The modern version of over mightiness ie, the subject being mightier than the king, can be seen in TN.(1) Saalai mariyal- road blocks (2) Kaala varaiarai atta velai niruththam – indefinite strikes, (3) Saahum varai unna viratham- fast unto death. These three farcical practices are now a daily feature stifling the process of governance.

If land is needed for a public purpose the government is obliged to acquire without demur. If strong arm tactics are resorted to by those who are a law unto themselves, then there is no governance, only abdication. Thiruvaluvar says that “A country should be devoid of caucuses, ruinous enemy within and killer squads; that plague the ruler”- kural 735. In modern nations the constitution vests authority, electoral process selects the ruler for conferment of power and the state machinery along with the coercive apparatus, is handed over as part of a social contract. To Louis XVI the social contract was not inviolable. The price was paid in 1792.

[barrykul]

Originally Posted by dis.agree

dude, with 200 ft you could build 20 lanes in all. nhai certainly has to explain why they need so much space and also how much they plan to compensate for acquiring land.

and the land acquisition bill that is being planned, is to protect farmers interest - not the industries.

With a handle like dis.agree I cant say much can I. The point is that NHAI planners are not stupid. 200ft is not much when you consider service roads which IMO are required to keep local traffic away from highway traffic. Service roads require 30ft on either side and leaving some room for separation we are now down to 120ft or less. Highway traffic planners need 50ft on each way to leave room for expansion and pull-off lanes. Planting trees and shrubs and sidewalks would take up any slack. So where is the anomaly in this request. I don't understand, since when do traders become experts in traffic planning. Their job is to make money selling goods/services. They are not farmers.

The issue that the traders need to demand if they are losing their land is proper compensation, that is all they can demand. The feasibility or validity of land acquisition is entirely upto the planners.

[Keeran]

A few decades back, highway specialists from World Bank advised 4 chains width for highways, ie 264 ft. Such large space would incorporate median, carriageway of 6 to 8 lanes, pull off lanes, service lanes, pavements, shoulders , avenue planting, green cover and burrow areas in under- populated or unpopulated stretches. The modern world is replete with block free arterial highways.

Canada has a population of 31 million. The capital Toronto has 2.5 million while Greater Toronto has 5.5 million. The area of Toronto is 630 sq km. Chennai and Toronto are a study in contrasts. The multi-lane Highway 401, has 6 to 18 lanes adjacent to one another, for a stretch coursing through Greater Toronto. It’s a symbol of visionary thinking and forward planning. The project which was commenced in 1938 was completed in 1968 ie the entire length from East to West. No trader or encroacher ever prescribed the parameters. There is a Japanese saying, when the sun rises the summit glimpses the rays first. Needless to say the myopic sight of the petty trader equips him very poorly.

[Rasnaboy]

I wish these traders had stopped being so selfish. The road starting from Padi is a real eyesore especially in monsoon season - no well-defined medians, no pavements, sudden sharp curves (as if it were in a mountainous region) - I wonder how they call it a "Highway"! The average width of the road is not more than 30 feet (less than 1/8th of the World Bank standard). With medians, pavements, service roads and others devouring most of the space, as Barrykul rightly pointed out, we would end up with not more than 3 lanes on either side. I even wonder if 200 ft would really be sufficient for this stretch. People should realise this before resorting to a demonstration.

[dis.agree]

Originally Posted by barrykul

With a handle like dis.agree I cant say much can I. The point is that NHAI planners are not stupid. 200ft is not much when you consider service roads which IMO are required to keep local traffic away from highway traffic. Service roads require 30ft on either side and leaving some room for separation we are now down to 120ft or less. Highway traffic planners need 50ft on each way to leave room for expansion and pull-off lanes. Planting trees and shrubs and sidewalks would take up any slack. So where is the anomaly in this request. I don't understand, since when do traders become experts in traffic planning. Their job is to make money selling goods/services. They are not farmers.

The issue that the traders need to demand if they are losing their land is proper compensation, that is all they can demand. The feasibility or validity of land acquisition is entirely upto the planners.

if it suits you, you would say government officials are stupid. but here they aren't? anyway the point is why do you need a 200 ft road here. this is not a critical road in chennai by any standards. even GST road from kathipara to tambaram is only a 6 lane road or about 100 ft. Chennai - Bangalore road is also about 4-6 lanes and is no more than 80 -100 ft.

width of this road as per cmda master plan 2 is 45 m from IRR (city limits) to CMDA limits. that is about 150 ft. You could look up page 30 of http://www.cmdachennai.gov.in/Volume..._Transport.pdf.

[Rasnaboy]

Ahem! But Mr.Disagree, all the roads that you use for comparison are just our own Chennai roads, and they themselves are facing serious traffic problems. Even the best road of Chennai, the OMR, is scroned upon by critics (please see "Chennai IT Corridor Project" thread). Keeping in mind that we should always aim for international standards, we should start comparing them with world-class highways like the Toronto one (see Keeran's post above). In order for our roads to be a model one in the future, the model that we adopt today should be good enough as well.

[dis.agree]

Originally Posted by Rasnaboy

Ahem! But Mr.Disagree, all the roads that you use for comparison are just our own Chennai roads, and they themselves are facing serious traffic problems. Even the best road of Chennai, the OMR, is scroned upon by critics (please see "Chennai IT Corridor Project" thread). Keeping in mind that we should always aim for international standards, we should start comparing them with world-class highways like the Toronto one (see Keeran's post above). In order for our roads to be a model one in the future, the model that we adopt today should be good enough as well.

can we then expand them first? and what are the volumes of traffic on these roads and how do they compare with CTH? and i think it corridor in chennai is good enough. it is better than anna salai - the most important commercial road in chennai. that road width can handle lot more traffic than what it currently handles. india is perennially short of capital. so, we need to understand the priorities correctly and it has to be used judiciously.

building 20 lane roads like in the west is not the way forward. there is simply not enough energy to fuel all those cars. you would soon see such highways in the west empty and poorly maintained.

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by Keeran

Canada has a population of 31 million. The capital Toronto has 2.5 million while Greater Toronto has 5.5 million.

Your point is well taken, but I just wanted to point out a factual error wrt the capital of Canada. It is Ottawa not Toronto.

While Toronto is the largest city in Canada, Canadians didn't want Toronto to be the capital city but chose Ottawa for security reasons. They were afraid that Americans would attack and capture the capital city easily in the early years of the history of the country while under the British who fought with Americans. I gathered this information from a Canadian while on a visit there.

[Rasnaboy]

That's a great info! Thanks Arasu.

[Arasu]

Originally Posted by Rasnaboy

That's a great info! Thanks Arasu.

Thank you, Rasnaboy!

.

[Madras_Fan]

Keeran,

You had quoted the right example of 401 in Canada. I am just adding the picture below of 401 which I had took a month back to my Canada trip. I was indeed excited to see the number of lanes and the equal amount of traffic it had despite So many lanes like Fast, Slow, Exit lanes and Shoulders

Click the Photos for Bigger Pictures






Can anyone now think that 200 Ft is not required ???

[dis.agree]

Originally Posted by Madras_Fan

Keeran,

You had quoted the right example of 401 in Canada. I am just adding the picture below of 401 which I had took a month back to my Canada trip. I was indeed excited to see the number of lanes and the equal amount of traffic it had despite So many lanes like Fast, Slow, Exit lanes and Shoulders

Click the Photos for Bigger Pictures

Can anyone now think that 200 Ft is not required ???

i still do. whenever i see such roads and everytime i travel to usa, i wonder if all the other countries should come together and impose trade restrictions on them.

anyway, all that is not required with market increasing the prices of energy. canada would still be able to continue such energy in-efficient life styles because they have a lot of useful energy but usa does not. this world is a far better place without usa. usa consumes way too much and has not been producing for a long while now. let's stop aping usa or for that matter any of those so-called developed countries that built all that infrastructure only because of availability of cheap oil. remember that this world was an entirely different place for thousands of years & growing slowly. it all changed only in the last 200 years. all this was made possible because of fossil fuels that were created millions of years ago and we would be exhausting them within the next century - less than 300 years since coal & later oil was discovered. although it is common knowledge that these conventional fossil fuels are non-renewable, we all hope that it is in-exhaustible. year after year, we have international agencies such as iea, eia or us-doe publish trash - it's all based on hope & extrapolation.

so when some one says, world bank highway officials said so, i will not take it at face value. it is all based on developed countries which are all wrong & un-sustainable.