Possible zoning changes for 400 foot buildings in South Lake Union

[RMacherat]

We're preaching to the choir here. We all want taller, within reason, while protecting what needs protection. Keep in mind that we, and the NIMBY's, are looking at 2008. By 2050, and most of you will still be living, the population of the U.S. will be 420 million [best estimate,] and perspectives will be profoundly different. A LOT of those people, not even born yet, are going to want to live in Seattle. Would I have imagined today's skyline in, say, 1966? No possible way! By 2050, a suitable skyscraper site will go for $100 milion easily, if not a lot more, and likely a substantial building will have to be knocked down first. The tideflats will be no problem at all; 100' down is just as solid as anywhere else. The novelty of a seaplane on Lake Union will be long gone, and I could probably start a big fight on the future of BFI, but I won't. Point is, it will take 40 more years, but if you want to get an image of central Seattle then just 'cut' what's there now, stretch it higher, and 'paste' it about once to the east and three times each north and south.

[mhays]

That is an exciting vision.

My prediction is a bit different. Greater Downtown will grow but not in exactly that way.

The office boom of the past few decades won't be repeated. In past decades the number of office jobs grew as the US and local economy evolved, and because women joined the workforce. Both trends have largely played out, so there's less reason for growth going forward. Meanwhile we'll see slow effects from telecommuting and a trend toward smaller offices due to high costs and less paper. Downtown will continue to need more office space, but at a slower pace tied more to population growth.

Greater Downtown will continue to become more residential. The (market rate) people in districts like Belltown, SLU, Pike/Pine, and Pioneer Square today are in some ways pioneers, here not because it's nirvana but because the good and the convenience outweigh the bad. But as more people move in, the good stuff grows, from grocery stores (direct correlation) to parks (indirect correlation). Also, the convenience factor is getting more important as the region grows.

I wonder what will happen to travel. Will people travel less as oil prices rise? This has big repercussions, because with cheap fuel major downtowns in general were becoming more and more tourist-oriented. Seattle should continue to do well in this regard because we're rising up the chart of destinations (bigger piece of the pie) and we have a good number of Portlanders and Vancouverites nearby (and vice versa), but the growth rate is in question. I hope we grow a lot.

[jessejb]

Mhays,

What effect do you expect the Vancouver Olympics to have on Seattle's "slice of the pie" in the long term?

[NW Mike]

Long Term?

Very little to None!

[mhays]

I don't think it'll have a huge effect.

Vancouver has an outsized profile already among Commonwealth and former Commonwealth countries, and the Olympics will raise its profile among others....a bit. I don't think Salt Lake turned into a big destination, and the city won't be seen in a good-weather time.

Seattle will get a fair amount of pass-through traffic from elsewhere in the US, which will introduce us to a few from the US who haven't been here, again at a bad-weather time.

We'll have a great opportunity to brand the PSV area as a cohesive, attractive region for tourism and a great area for business, perhaps through TV ads.

[CityView Jim]

Originally Posted by mhays

That is an exciting vision.

My prediction is a bit different. Greater Downtown will grow but not in exactly that way.

The office boom of the past few decades won't be repeated. In past decades the number of office jobs grew as the US and local economy evolved, and because women joined the workforce. Both trends have largely played out, so there's less reason for growth going forward. Meanwhile we'll see slow effects from telecommuting and a trend toward smaller offices due to high costs and less paper. Downtown will continue to need more office space, but at a slower pace tied more to population growth.

Greater Downtown will continue to become more residential. The (market rate) people in districts like Belltown, SLU, Pike/Pine, and Pioneer Square today are in some ways pioneers, here not because it's nirvana but because the good and the convenience outweigh the bad. But as more people move in, the good stuff grows, from grocery stores (direct correlation) to parks (indirect correlation). Also, the convenience factor is getting more important as the region grows.

I wonder what will happen to travel. Will people travel less as oil prices rise? This has big repercussions, because with cheap fuel major downtowns in general were becoming more and more tourist-oriented. Seattle should continue to do well in this regard because we're rising up the chart of destinations (bigger piece of the pie) and we have a good number of Portlanders and Vancouverites nearby (and vice versa), but the growth rate is in question. I hope we grow a lot.

There also is a growing trend of downsizing office space in general in the forms of telecommuting, podding, and desk sharing. Not everone is going to have there 200 square foot office anymore.

Office space is becoming much more efficient. Just look how top employers in the area equip their spaces. Even conference rooms are somewhat falling by the wayside in size or even existence.

[Seasun]

I agree that office space per worker is decreasing but conference rooms are just as important as ever in my opinion. Just a few days ago an Amazon worker at my gym said they have a pretty big conference room shortage in their existing buildings and a lot of staff are really looking forward to the new SLU campus partly just to resolve this shortage. Even though I sometimes use net meetings to avoid travel across town (or farther) I will join co-workers in a conference room for the net meeting. I think company training and weekly face-to-face meetings are as important as ever to keep in touch with co-workers.

General trend - open offices that co-exist with well equipped conference rooms when you need to meet as a group or have a private conversation. I'm not sure what the office is on Post Alley at Harbor Steps just south of Tullys but the office design is very clean and white. Looks almost like a fake Jetsons office with barely a piece of paper in sight. Check it out sometime.

[CityView Jim]

Originally Posted by Seasun

I agree that office space per worker is decreasing but conference rooms are just as important as ever in my opinion. Just a few days ago an Amazon worker at my gym said they have a pretty big conference room shortage in their existing buildings and a lot of staff are really looking forward to the new SLU campus partly just to resolve this shortage. Even though I sometimes use net meetings to avoid travel across town (or farther) I will join co-workers in a conference room for the net meeting. I think company training and weekly face-to-face meetings are as important as ever to keep in touch with co-workers.

General trend - open offices that co-exist with well equipped conference rooms when you need to meet as a group or have a private conversation. I'm not sure what the office is on Post Alley at Harbor Steps just south of Tullys but the office design is very clean and white. Looks almost like a fake Jetsons office with barely a piece of paper in sight. Check it out sometime.

I work at Amazon and yes indeed, more meeting space is needed. But, rarely does it require more than room for a dozen at most. Most use Net Meeting or conference call from remote locations etc.

Is the face-to-face fading? I guess it depends on your line of work.

[mhays]

At my company, we converted much of our basement into conference rooms because we didn't have enough. The biggest can hold 150 or so. It gets well used, not only for our own meetings but also for other organizations (for example, the Cascadia chapter of the US Green Building Council has met there).

On my floor, we have about 20 people and two conference rooms, one of which seats 10 easily and 20 if necessary, and the other up to about 6. Pretty frequently they're both full.

Construction is a very collaborative industry. Not only do we have lots of meetings with clients, architects, engineers, and subcontractors, but we also have a lot of internal meetings anywhere from 2-150. (For bigger events, like the Holiday Party, we go elsewhere).

[CityView Jim]

As I said, it depends on the company - what they do, who they do it with, and where there people and clients are located.

[Rogue Linguist]

Now--my question is, why haven't they considered similar zoning changes for Belltown?

[mhays]

I wish we would.

[kub86]

Eh I don't think Belltown needs taller buildings. Belltown should study the Pearl District for inspiration... they did it right.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by kub86

Eh I don't think Belltown needs taller buildings. Belltown should study the Pearl District for inspiration... they did it right.

I like the Pearl District too, but I don't think Belltown really has the potential to be like the Pearl. For one, the Pearl is in a backwater part of town, traffic-wise (all the big roads go around it) and has narrow, slow streets, while Belltown has wide streets carrying a non-trivial amount of traffic that won't go away anything soon. For another, the Pearl is almost all residential (I believe) while Belltown already has a decent number of office buildings. I think Belltown will always have big-city glitzy-gritty feel (a la Chicago) and the Pearl more of a comfortable dense residential (a la Paris).

[mokocoko]

Originally Posted by SteveM

I like the Pearl District too, but I don't think Belltown really has the potential to be like the Pearl. For one, the Pearl is in a backwater part of town, traffic-wise (all the big roads go around it) and has narrow, slow streets, while Belltown has wide streets carrying a non-trivial amount of traffic that won't go away anything soon. For another, the Pearl is almost all residential (I believe) while Belltown already has a decent number of office buildings. I think Belltown will always have big-city glitzy-gritty feel (a la Chicago) and the Pearl more of a comfortable dense residential (a la Paris).

You're right, Steve M. The Pearl should be more like Interbay. Belltown should be like the Upper East Side.

[SteveM]

Originally Posted by mokocoko

You're right, Steve M. The Pearl should be more like Interbay. Belltown should be like the Upper East Side.

I think you mean Interbay should be more like the Pearl. I'd definitely agree with that -- Interbay is a great spot for tallish bulky towers and quiet streets.

[mhays]

I agree with the vision of Belltown as Upper East Side. (And it's halfway there already.) Taller buildings are very appropriate.

Here's something I wrote for the DJC: http://www.djc.com/blogs/SeattleScap...come-belltown/

[Rogue Linguist]

Originally Posted by mhays

I agree with the vision of Belltown as Upper East Side. (And it's halfway there already.) Taller buildings are very appropriate.

Here's something I wrote for the DJC: http://www.djc.com/blogs/SeattleScap...come-belltown/

I just can't believe they're considering re-zoning SLU (which is good--they still should) before Belltown, which already feels more interconnected with the rest of the city centre. It deserves greater attention with respect to height relaxations.

[SeattleRedhawk86]

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/htm...eunion26m.html

McGinn's South Lake Union rezone plan has towers up to 400 feet

By Bob Young and Eric Pyne

Buildings could rise to 400 feet in parts of Seattle's fast-growing South Lake Union area under a proposal unveiled Monday by Mayor Mike McGinn.

The long-awaited plan, which must be approved by the City Council, was released Monday after a neighborhood process that started in 2008.

Bigger buildings would bring thousands of jobs and households, McGinn said. They also might provide millions for affordable housing and park improvements under a policy that gives developers extra height if they contribute to public benefits.

[bennyboo]

IM OKAY WITH THIS.