Possible zoning changes for 400 foot buildings in South Lake Union

[pwalker]

Bottom line, there is a unique opportunity to build a new tallest in Seattle right now in the central business district. Perhaps something that may eclipse the old Columbia Tower. I would say to those who may be considering this, do it now, as the city may change the rules in coming years.

I would like to see a tower of over 1100 feet, perhaps a combo of hotel, condos, and offices. There are the Sea-Tac flight limitations, but I still think that this can be accomplished without high media towers getting in the way. Please take advantage of unlimited height restrictions, because I don't think those will last forever in politically correct Seattle.

[jessejb]

Preach it. Preach!

[mhays]

Anything approaching the Columbia Center's height would be extremely tough to make work. Commercial use (offices and hotels) is subject to a fairly low FAR that limits potential commercial height. If I understand correctly (??), residential use isn't subject to FAR, but then you get into enormous cost issues associated with both the highest levels and maintaining separation of uses, starting at the parking levels. Then you have the tough issue of a lengthy commute for residents to get upstairs, which gets in the way of high values or rents.

Offices plus hotel plus housing it a probable no-go. You don't get FAR benefit for a second commercial use, and hotels like narrower buildings than offices so they'd need to go high rather than low, even while they face higher construction and operating costs and not much $/room value for going higher. And fitting three uses is a logistic nightmare that would require tradeoffs of many types (like small entry lobbies), with higher costs and a less desirable situation for each use. It can work on a large site, or when demand is enough to accept the tradeoffs, but it's not graceful or profitable on the small blocks we have in the CBD.

And that's assuming you get one of the few full blocks that could theoretically be available, though I'm not sure which if any has no preservation requirements. Without a full block your FAR is based upon a smaller denominator.

[bgwah]

mhays, you're just describing more zoning rules that need to be changed

[RMacherat]

It's called Bataphobia. The widespread condition in Seattle dates back to the first inklings of our Columbia Tower and a meeting attended by M. et Mme. Pierre Couilles-Pettipois. Just as the meeting was to begin the doors suddenly flew open and Mr. Martin Selig walked in sporting an enormous erection, whereupon Monsieur Couilles-Pettipois stood, uttered a peculiar croaking sound and dropped dead on the spot. Ever since then, Madame Couilles-Pettipois has been a very vocal leader, fighting to make certain nothing in Seattle ever reaches remotely near that length, I mean height, again.

[CityView Jim]

The FAA lowered the initial height design of the Columbia Tower for the SeaTac and Boeing Field approaches. But the FAA also granted permission for a couple antennae to be added to the top (another 200 feet or so). But that never got done. So maybe they would allow unless they've tightened up since the 80s.

Side note: I know they are playing with new landing schemes - sharper, shorter descents. I still don't think this will change things for the downtown core, though.

[testdrive]

Originally Posted by RMacherat

It's called Bataphobia. The widespread condition in Seattle dates back to the first inklings of our Columbia Tower and a meeting attended by M. et Mme. Pierre Couilles-Pettipois. Just as the meeting was to begin the doors suddenly flew open and Mr. Martin Selig walked in sporting an enormous erection, whereupon Monsieur Couilles-Pettipois stood, uttered a peculiar croaking sound and dropped dead on the spot. Ever since then, Madame Couilles-Pettipois has been a very vocal leader, fighting to make certain nothing in Seattle ever reaches remotely near that length, I mean height, again.

Another example of why this place is fun to visit

[SeattleRedhawk86]

http://seattletimes.com/html/localne...andeal15m.html

McGinn-Vulcan plan would put 24-story buildings on Lake Union

By Bob Young

A deal between the city of Seattle and Vulcan, Paul Allen's real estate firm, is key to Mayor Mike McGinn's proposal to allow significantly taller buildings in the bustling South Lake Union neighborhood.

In a proposed agreement now before the City Council, Vulcan would give almost an acre of property near the lake to the city for affordable housing and other "extraordinary public benefits."

In exchange Vulcan, the area's largest landowner, would get to build three towers about 24 stories tall near the edge of the lake. "It's a once in a lifetime opportunity to create affordable housing and social services," said Lori Mason Curran, a Vulcan spokeswoman.

The idea behind the deal, according to Mason Curran, is this: Nonprofits in Seattle struggle to find space they can afford. Vulcan would convey to the city 37,600 square feet of undeveloped land on a block bounded by Broad and Republican streets and Dexter and Aurora avenues. The city could add that chunk to a piece it owns to create a full block available for public benefit, such as affordable housing and job training.

"This is an opportunity to get land upfront to make innovative, creative things happen," city Planning Director Marshall Foster told the council Wednesday.

Led by Vulcan and aided by about $300 million in public money, South Lake Union has been transformed from a warehouse district into a high-tech beehive with thousands of new Amazon.com workers.

But the tallest buildings now are 160 feet. Under McGinn's long-awaited proposal, towers could rise to 400 feet, or roughly 40 stories on blocks just north of Denny Way. That strip includes undeveloped blocks owned by Vulcan and The Seattle Times Co.

Council members peppered Foster with questions about the Vulcan deal, which Foster said could add 400 affordable apartments to the area called Block 59. The council might act on the deal next month. Council President Sally Clark said she hadn't yet made up her mind about it.

Underlying such a deal is the city's policy of allowing buildings to rise to certain heights if developers contribute a prescribed amount of money to public benefits such as affordable housing.

In this case, the land conveyed to the city — with an estimated value of $10 million to $12 million — would count as a credit toward fees Vulcan would pay for erecting condo or apartment towers up to 240 feet tall on three lakefront blocks it owns between Valley and Mercer streets.

Foster likened the credit to a "Starbucks card" that Vulcan could tap as it moved forward with projects. The company could use the credit on other parcels it owns, in addition to the lakefront ones. If Vulcan builds the three lakefront towers to 240 feet, it would owe the city an estimated $12 million in so-called incentive zoning fees, according to Mason Curran.

Vulcan also would pay the city $3.25 million as part of the deal. The city could use that to purchase two parcels on Block 59 not owned by the city or Vulcan, Foster said; or the city could use the money to otherwise prepare Block 59 for development.

The city expects to seek a private partner to help it develop Block 59, Foster said. One potential concept is a 160-foot tower with market-rate condos or apartments. That, in turn, could help finance several seven-story buildings for affordable housing, he explained.

Nonprofit groups are expected to testify in favor of the deal and the larger neighborhood rezone in a public hearing Wednesday evening, Mason Curran said. Vulcan's public-relations materials include quotes supporting the deal from several nonprofit directors including Sharon Lee, head of the Low Income Housing Institute, who also called the deal a "once in a lifetime opportunity."

Opponents of the rezone, aided by former Councilmember and current lobbyist Peter Steinbrueck, will testify as well. They include members of a neighborhood coalition, such as John Pehrson.

Pehrson questions the need for dramatically taller buildings, particularly near the lakefront, saying that exciting growth has occurred under the existing zoning. About 2,600 new housing units are being built or designed under the current zoning, said Pehrson, a retired engineer.

He also predicted McGinn's proposal would alter the character of the neighborhood, where about 30 percent of current housing is considered affordable, and make the mix of residents more affluent and less diverse. "We don't believe there's a plan for keeping that diversity when building 240-foot towers," he said.

[art5617]

YES. It needs to happen.

[jiggawhat?]

http://www.scribd.com/doc/113153153/...opensity-Study

this is a cool link from VIA architecture with images of the new south lake union!

[bgwah]

If anything, it could use more height/mass. I clearly don't think the same way as NIMBYs at all!

[SeattleRedhawk86]

http://www.flickr.com/photos/studio2...7631178033624/

Some nice renderings of how South Lake Union will be transformed after this potential upzone.

[bennyboo]

GOD, i REALLY hope all this could actually happen i would be infinitely happy.

[Matt the Engineer]

Just spoke at the up zone meeting. It went from 6 until at least 9 with 2 minute public comments. The place was packed. I'd say 60/40 for an up zone (though I was only there for the second half - I multitasked at the small lot meeting). The anti group mostly complained about views for themselves and light for Denny park.

[mSeattle]

I'm for those Vulcan towers ONLY if they get the best European designers and TKO design.

[alexjonlin]

I love the idea for the Civic Square on Westlake between Mercer and Valley. I guess that block won't need to be open anymore once Valley is no longer a major street.

[RMacherat]

YES, something we've all wanted! Ironic though (he couldn't help but stink up the room with,) whatever excellent reasons the height limits existed in the first place suddenly vanish when some shiny presents appear under the tree. Asswholes.

[Ruffhauser]

I thought this picture from the Times article was slick.




These pictures from Jiggawhat's link caught my eye as well.

[cameronrex]

Was anything said about how these towers might impact the sea planes?

[Matt the Engineer]

I belive there's a 3-dimensional surface that the buildings aren't allowed to cross, whatever we do to our code. I remember seeing it in some SLU report a few years back, and it rises fairly quickly past the lake.