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Old June 11th, 2008, 03:41 PM   #41
nikoy88
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Quote:
Originally Posted by petet View Post
And in your previous post "Why they don't build in in northern Bulgaria?" I read somewhere soon that it is little (not as the place now) dangerous because there is some possibillity to have an earthquike in the Black Sea.

The place now all north Bulgaria is dangerous.

Near Plovdiv(Chirpan) it is dangerous too.


For me,I think if they will move it ( I don't know ),they must to move it in South/Southern Bulgaria.
ridiculous ... by following your logic we may conclude that the Japs shouldn’t build any NPP whatsoever .... the biggest NPP in China is situated at the coast of the Yellow Sea, one of the most unstable areas in whole of Asia ...

and now u're spreadin' this nonsense about the location of B. NPP, gimmy a break , won't u !? the location is chosen at the safest place in BG from seismic point of view. Go check some maps if u don't believe me ...
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Old June 11th, 2008, 05:36 PM   #42
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Originally Posted by nikoy88 View Post
ridiculous ... by following your logic we may conclude that the Japs shouldn’t build any NPP whatsoever .... the biggest NPP in China is situated at the coast of the Yellow Sea, one of the most unstable areas in whole of Asia ...
That is also an argument, but I wouldn't take the Chinese as a standard for safety and quality. Japs are, but they also probably adapted their NPP technologies to the seismic conditions.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 05:42 PM   #43
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probably adapted their NPP technologies to the seismic conditions.
Who told you, that we wont do it too.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:09 PM   #44
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The supervisors for NPP "Belene" have been hired!

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Създава се работна група за координация и мониторинг на проекта АЕЦ «Белене»
11.06.2008 16:57
Със заповед на министъра на икономиката и енергетиката Петър Димитров се създава работна група за координация, мониторинг и контрол на техническото, административното и финансовото управление на подготовката и изпълнението на проект „Изграждане на нова мощност на площадката на АЕЦ „Белене” и сключените договори, съобщиха от пресцентъра на МИЕ.

Работната група ще осъществява цялостна координация и контрол на дейностите по подготовка и последващо изпълнение на проекта за изграждане на АЕЦ „Белене”, както и мониторинг на извършената дейност. При осъществяване на задълженията и отговорностите си, Групата ще получава необходимото съдействие от длъжностните лица в МИЕ и НЕК ЕАД, ангажирани с подготовката и изпълнението на проекта. Работната група ще отчита дейността си с тримесечни доклади, които се представят в Министерство на икономиката и енергетиката и НЕК ЕАД.

Работната група е към заместник-министъра на икономиката и енергетиката Галина Тошева и е в състав: Иван Атанасов, ръководител, Любомир Велков, заместник-ръководител, Антон Иванов, Атанас Съйков, Иван Сачков. Иван Атанасов е досегашен изпълнителен директор на «Италчименте груп»- България, Любомир Велков е главен изпълнителен директор на НЕК ЕАД, Антон Иванов е икономист, Атанас Съйков е директор на Дирекция «Управление при кризи» в МИЕ и Иван Сачков е държавен експерт в дирекция „Енергийни пазари и преструктуриране” в МИЕ.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:12 PM   #45
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Who told you, that we wont do it too.
I am not saying you won't, but I just don't trust Russian NPP technology. Russians are very good at building bombs and weapons, but not so good at everything else.

I wouldn't want you to take me wrong. I want to see another NPP built in Bulgaria, because the more NPPs in the region, the safer is the electricity supply overall in the region, due to the curent and more so future interconnected grids (the regional electricity market will become one of the most connected market of all). But equally important for Bulgaria and first of all (leaving aside the safety issues) is that banks may be reluctant to finance a project which has been questioned for its safety.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:34 PM   #46
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But equally important for Bulgaria and first of all (leaving aside the safety issues) is that banks may be reluctant to finance a project which has been questioned for its safety.
The safety issue is overblown really. BNP Pariba already agreed to finance the project.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:39 PM   #47
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The safety issue is overblown really. BNP Pariba already agreed to finance the project.
That;s good news. So, what's with all this fuss about the safety issue?
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:40 PM   #48
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That;s good news. So, what's with all this fuss about the safety issue?
It a belated last attempt to derail the project.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 06:42 PM   #49
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Originally Posted by new bulgaria View Post
It a belated last attempt to derail the project.
By whom?
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Old June 11th, 2008, 07:04 PM   #50
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I am not saying you won't, but I just don't trust Russian NPP technology. Russians are very good at building bombs and weapons, but not so good at everything else.
now now Le Clerk, what was that? Russia is one of the leading nations when it comes to civil nuclear technology, otherwise it won't be building its powerplants all over the world

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In late October 2006 the offer of the Russian Atomstroyexport, the French Framatome (Areva), and the German Siemens using third-generation VVER-1000/V-446B reactors was approved by the National Electric Company. The offer was selected due to the highest safety level guaranteed by several new independent active and passive safety systems, as well as the option for Atomstroyexport to buy back the old unit supplied in the 1980s. Another reasons was the 60-year operation term. According to the Atomstroyexport president, the first unit would be in operation by 2013 and the second a year later.[1] On 7 December 2008 the European Commission gave its favourable opinion to the NPP, saying that it met all requirements of articles 41 to 44 of the Euratom Treaty.[2] A favourable opinion of the EC is one of the requirements for a Euratom loan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belene_Nuclear_Power_Plant

Last edited by Yury; June 11th, 2008 at 07:10 PM.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 07:11 PM   #51
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now now Le Clerk, what was that? Russia is one of the leading nations when it comes to civil nuclear technology, otherwise it won't be building its powerplants all over the world
Well, I did not try to be nasty at Russia, but Russian (sorry, Soviet ) built NPPs do not have a very good track record. And besides, Russia does not have a strong seismic area and does not have to base its nuclear technology for plants for such incidents, as opposed to Japan for example.

I may be wrong though (I just read somewhere that one the financing bank [German one maybe?]withdrew its support due to safety reasons), as I do not properly understand the relationship between earthquakes and NPPs. But, all in all, the important thing is that the NPP is 100% safe and no safety reasons are overlooked.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 07:17 PM   #52
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Originally Posted by Yury View Post

Quote:
In late October 2006 the offer of the Russian Atomstroyexport, the French Framatome (Areva), and the German Siemens using third-generation VVER-1000/V-446B reactors was approved by the National Electric Company. The offer was selected due to the highest safety level guaranteed by several new independent active and passive safety systems, as well as the option for Atomstroyexport to buy back the old unit supplied in the 1980s. Another reasons was the 60-year operation term. According to the Atomstroyexport president, the first unit would be in operation by 2013 and the second a year later.[1] On 7 December 2008 the European Commission gave its favourable opinion to the NPP, saying that it met all requirements of articles 41 to 44 of the Euratom Treaty.[2] A favourable opinion of the EC is one of the requirements for a Euratom loan.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Belene_Nuclear_Power_Plant
So then what's all the fuss about the safety? If it's approved by the EC, then I do not understand why some banks have problems with its safety.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 07:35 PM   #53
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perhaps because they also think that Russian NPPs do not have a very good track record
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Old June 11th, 2008, 09:22 PM   #54
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imo, it all comes 2 politics which is directed cash. when they buy from your competition you strike back and this is by no means in term of nationality... 200 years ago maybe but not 2day

btw..."approved by EC" imo, means ok we lost rather than EU knows how; everything. I really dislike when someone says a certain action is "up to EU standards", EU is far from utopia; self confidence is what everyone should be looking 2, but then, powerlessness comes into the picture and we end up with the cliche "approved by EU, or EU standards". it sickens me, but hey, another cliche "money talks"

Last edited by JuMPer; June 11th, 2008 at 09:34 PM.
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Old June 11th, 2008, 09:45 PM   #55
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so you basically mean they are delaying it because they want some EU company to build it instead of a Russian one?
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Old June 11th, 2008, 10:22 PM   #56
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in a way yes. i mean that no matter what, the competition will always try to "sabotage" a deal (not any deal; 1 thats worth billions). i think this is all related to the closer of the old nuke, the powerful nuke producers prayed on BG and used our EU membership to benefit from this (you cant just take without giving back) to get us to buy EU technology or "western", but than by the law of politics they cant force us to do that b/c Russia is way more important to them (the nuke producers) than BG. Hence, it is still a win-win situation (french, etc banks) still get alot of cash.

imo, in other words we have to build a new nuke to pay the price of EU membership and this has nothing to do with Russian or EU technology or especially safety (which has been proven years ago)
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Old June 11th, 2008, 10:38 PM   #57
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I see
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Old June 11th, 2008, 10:43 PM   #58
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so you basically mean they are delaying it because they want some EU company to build it instead of a Russian one?
Yury, I think the dispute was about the location and not about which company builds it. The issue was whether Belene was the best location for the plant.

I am not saying that necessarily Belene is a bad location, but the region has some bad seismic history. And precisely because of this bad history, the first NPP in Romania was built outside the critical seismic area, while the second to be built is also in an area outside the critical one. Actually the seismic area which also touches Belene covers half of Romania. The first Romanian NPP is in the other 'safe' half, while the second will also be in the other 'safe' half. For a reason or another, the decision here was to build the plants as far as it can get from this fault line.

I hope that in the ned nothing bad happens, and probably will not, but with NPPs is like with the red buttons for strategic nukes. They have to be 100% sure.

And BTW, the EC gave its OK for the technology, but not necesarily about the location (or this is what I read from your post).
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Old June 11th, 2008, 10:49 PM   #59
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imo, its a bundle of political crap, as i said its not the technology...its politics
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Old June 11th, 2008, 10:54 PM   #60
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imo, its a bundle of political crap, as i said its not the technology...its politics
But if it had been about politics, it'd have been BNP Paribas which had withdrew its financial support, because the French technology is the only one in the EU which can compete with the Russian one, isn't it? BUt BNP Paribas supports it, so I do not think it's about politics which want to exclude other technologies and thus companies.
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