#042 l First Canadian Place l TORONTO l 298m l 72fl - Page 4

KGB · October 10th, 2003, 10:07 AM

I understand what your talking about urban....I can remember when they built it. This was the flagship of the Reichman empire...at that time, this was as good as it got, and was excactly what the market called for.

As the 8th tallest building in the world when it was built, and with E. D. Stone as the architect, and the sea of marble inside and out....and it's mixed-use base....this was pretty impressive at the time.

The big drawback for it, was the fact the CN Tower was u/c at the same time, and stole it's thunder in terms of tall structures.

It does exude the powerful, conservative Bay St bank-building feeling it was intended to, but looking at it as just a member of the skyline....it has not aged well at all (even before you consider the falling apart marble facade).

It's MINT neighbours like Mies's TD and Pei's CIBC are gems today...and even the late 70's RBP is still the great glowing jewel....they have all aged very well....FCP might still tower over them, but has really lost it's standing in the style dept.

KGB

ONE HUMAN · October 10th, 2003, 02:16 PM

Royal Bank Plaza is a gem, but Commerce Court West? What makes it any better than First Canadian Place? CCW is also a box except that it's clad in stainless steel. FCP makes more of a statement as part of the Toronto skyline than CCW, and not just because of its height, although that is the main factor.

KGB · October 11th, 2003, 07:49 AM

Yes....CCW is extremely good. But with the international style, it's the very subtle details that make all the difference between masterpieces and mediocre. And I also think it takes a much more sophisticated eye for architecture to see it, which I think explains why a lot of people see this building as no different than the run-of-the-mill modern buildings of the period out there.

Not trying to be a snob, just pointing out that the subtle design features of buildings that are intended to be sparse on detail are far less obvious to detect, and even more difficult to design.

Other styles were much easier to build "attractive" examples...Modern was very difficult, which is why many fail.

KGB

ONE HUMAN · October 12th, 2003, 07:13 AM

CCW is not extremely good. Holy hyperbole Batman! I hope you are not suggesting that it's a masterpiece. If anything, it's mediocre. KGB, you would be hard-pressed to find five people that agree with what you said in your last post.

Aesthetics don't require sophisticated, elitist, snobby qualifications in order to be appreciated. Yes, one could argue that architectural aesthetics are objective, but at the same time, there is no denying that there are shapes, colours, and proportions which are pleasing to the eye, regardless of who is viewing them. CCW exhibits few, if any, of these qualities. Okay, I'm overstating things, but it is a very average building. It is functional, and it's definitely not an eyesore, however, it accomplishes this by being bland and ordinary.

While it is just a box, at least it's different than the other boxes that make up the Toronto skyline. The colour of the stainless steel and glass complements the other buildings in the vicinity. For that reason alone, I suppose it's an integral part of the Toronto skyline. As an individual building I don't find it very interesting, but as a part of the skyline, it's okay.

I don't hate the CCW, but I think it's the least impressive of the Toronto bank buildings. Of course this is just one man's opinion, and I could be wrong. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Anyway, I digress; this thread is supposed to be about FCP.

Primo · October 16th, 2003, 01:50 AM

Nothing interesting, but is tall, I like that 7/10

dumatod · October 17th, 2003, 07:24 AM

Boxy!
Nothing special
But it looks clean

Fabio · November 8th, 2003, 03:47 AM

8/10

Nice tower, but nothing special.

MCC · November 8th, 2003, 05:27 AM

7/10

November 14th, 2003, 07:40 AM

7/10
Looks good enough for a Simple straight box. No great work of architecture.

alex3000 · November 17th, 2003, 09:23 AM

5/10

Aquarius · January 17th, 2004, 07:15 PM

A different box, is not very classic , seems to be cheap is not elegant 8/10 For the year of construction

KGB · February 1st, 2004, 06:48 PM

"seems to be cheap"

You could critisize FCP on a number of points....but being cheap is not one of them. It was a top-of-the-line AAA office building.

KGB

Imperfect Ending · February 3rd, 2004, 07:13 AM

8/10

Mmm.. not a bad box..

February 10th, 2004, 02:08 AM

it seems pretty boring but something about it makes it stand out...

8

Necker · February 10th, 2004, 06:44 PM

8

Wisma · March 5th, 2004, 08:43 PM

7.5/10 tall but still boring...

Necker · March 14th, 2004, 04:58 PM

10/10

7 World Trade · April 3rd, 2004, 03:30 AM

aww...it's not that bad, it has a real sleek look to its facade. pretty nice for an international-style era skyscraper. but i think trump toronto is more worthy to be the tallest in toronto. 8/10

April 3rd, 2004, 12:15 PM

I know it's plain a and boxy but it's a magnificent scraper! There's just something about the simplicity and whiteness that gives the building a glorious purity. My favourite in Canada, not just because it's the tallest, but because for some reason it's very appealing to me. I also think the logo of the BMO is very fitting, I like the blue and white combination--even if almost negligible--.

They should whiten the plates, also some of them are missing...that's a bit of a downer.

10/10

Desven · May 20th, 2004, 08:45 PM

no special,but its high and quite beautiful
7/10

View Poll Results: First Canadian Place, Toronto
10	82	11.63%
9.5	20	2.84%
9	51	7.23%
8.5	47	6.67%
8	96	13.62%
7.5	67	9.50%
7	91	12.91%
6.5	47	6.67%
6	57	8.09%
5.5	21	2.98%
5	42	5.96%
4.5	11	1.56%
4	19	2.70%
3.5	9	1.28%
3 or less	45	6.38%
Voters: 705. You may not vote on this poll

October 12th, 2003, 07:13 AM	#64
ONE HUMAN misanthropic humanitarian Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 627 Likes (Received): 3	CCW is not extremely good. Holy hyperbole Batman! I hope you are not suggesting that it's a masterpiece. If anything, it's mediocre. KGB, you would be hard-pressed to find five people that agree with what you said in your last post. Aesthetics don't require sophisticated, elitist, snobby qualifications in order to be appreciated. Yes, one could argue that architectural aesthetics are objective, but at the same time, there is no denying that there are shapes, colours, and proportions which are pleasing to the eye, regardless of who is viewing them. CCW exhibits few, if any, of these qualities. Okay, I'm overstating things, but it is a very average building. It is functional, and it's definitely not an eyesore, however, it accomplishes this by being bland and ordinary. While it is just a box, at least it's different than the other boxes that make up the Toronto skyline. The colour of the stainless steel and glass complements the other buildings in the vicinity. For that reason alone, I suppose it's an integral part of the Toronto skyline. As an individual building I don't find it very interesting, but as a part of the skyline, it's okay. I don't hate the CCW, but I think it's the least impressive of the Toronto bank buildings. Of course this is just one man's opinion, and I could be wrong. We'll just have to agree to disagree. Anyway, I digress; this thread is supposed to be about FCP. Last edited by ONE HUMAN; October 12th, 2003 at 07:19 AM.

October 16th, 2003, 01:50 AM	#65
Primo Concept Join Date: Jul 2003 Location: Viña del Mar Posts: 1,841 Likes (Received): 0	Nothing interesting, but is tall, I like that 7/10 __________________ ____________________/\__ Chile..............Non Stop /

November 17th, 2003, 09:23 AM	#70
alex3000 I'm not Chinese Join Date: Oct 2002 Location: Los Angeles Posts: 1,335 Likes (Received): 1	5/10 __________________ California must protect its borders from AUSTRIA.

February 3rd, 2004, 07:13 AM	#73
Imperfect Ending Or is it? Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: In Portland, Oregon with Leo Posts: 10,446 Likes (Received): 31	8/10 Mmm.. not a bad box.. __________________ Las Vegas \| Los Angeles \| San Diego \| San Francisco West Coast Road Trip \| Road Trip Part 2 ︷︸︸︷︸︷︷︸︷︸

October 10th, 2003, 10:07 AM	#61
KGB Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: TO Posts: 5,769 Likes (Received): 1	I understand what your talking about urban....I can remember when they built it. This was the flagship of the Reichman empire...at that time, this was as good as it got, and was excactly what the market called for. As the 8th tallest building in the world when it was built, and with E. D. Stone as the architect, and the sea of marble inside and out....and it's mixed-use base....this was pretty impressive at the time. The big drawback for it, was the fact the CN Tower was u/c at the same time, and stole it's thunder in terms of tall structures. It does exude the powerful, conservative Bay St bank-building feeling it was intended to, but looking at it as just a member of the skyline....it has not aged well at all (even before you consider the falling apart marble facade). It's MINT neighbours like Mies's TD and Pei's CIBC are gems today...and even the late 70's RBP is still the great glowing jewel....they have all aged very well....FCP might still tower over them, but has really lost it's standing in the style dept. KGB

October 10th, 2003, 02:16 PM	#62
ONE HUMAN misanthropic humanitarian Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 627 Likes (Received): 3	Royal Bank Plaza is a gem, but Commerce Court West? What makes it any better than First Canadian Place? CCW is also a box except that it's clad in stainless steel. FCP makes more of a statement as part of the Toronto skyline than CCW, and not just because of its height, although that is the main factor.

October 11th, 2003, 07:49 AM	#63
KGB Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: TO Posts: 5,769 Likes (Received): 1	Yes....CCW is extremely good. But with the international style, it's the very subtle details that make all the difference between masterpieces and mediocre. And I also think it takes a much more sophisticated eye for architecture to see it, which I think explains why a lot of people see this building as no different than the run-of-the-mill modern buildings of the period out there. Not trying to be a snob, just pointing out that the subtle design features of buildings that are intended to be sparse on detail are far less obvious to detect, and even more difficult to design. Other styles were much easier to build "attractive" examples...Modern was very difficult, which is why many fail. KGB

October 17th, 2003, 07:24 AM	#66
dumatod 자진탈퇴 SELF- B-A-N-N-E-D Join Date: Sep 2003 Posts: 327 Likes (Received): 0	Boxy! Nothing special But it looks clean

November 8th, 2003, 03:47 AM	#67
Fabio Go Habs! Go! Join Date: Dec 2002 Location: Montréal-QC Posts: 5,092 Likes (Received): 2	8/10 Nice tower, but nothing special.

November 8th, 2003, 05:27 AM	#68
MCC Made in Indy Join Date: Nov 2003 Location: Indianapolis Posts: 817 Likes (Received): 0	7/10

November 14th, 2003, 07:40 AM	#69
manx_bkk Guest Posts: n/a Likes (Received):	7/10 Looks good enough for a Simple straight box. No great work of architecture.

January 17th, 2004, 07:15 PM	#71
Aquarius Nooo, ya no Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: Barcelona Posts: 1,255 Likes (Received): 3	A different box, is not very classic , seems to be cheap is not elegant 8/10 For the year of construction

February 1st, 2004, 06:48 PM	#72
KGB Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: TO Posts: 5,769 Likes (Received): 1	"seems to be cheap" You could critisize FCP on a number of points....but being cheap is not one of them. It was a top-of-the-line AAA office building. KGB

February 10th, 2004, 02:08 AM	#74
matthew_p2004 Guest Posts: n/a Likes (Received):	it seems pretty boring but something about it makes it stand out... 8

February 10th, 2004, 06:44 PM	#75
Necker BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Santiago d.C Posts: 1,549 Likes (Received): 0	8

March 5th, 2004, 08:43 PM	#76
Wisma Registered User Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Jakarta (Tanah Tinggi) Posts: 2,890 Likes (Received): 0	7.5/10 tall but still boring...

March 14th, 2004, 04:58 PM	#77
Necker BANNED Join Date: Apr 2003 Location: Santiago d.C Posts: 1,549 Likes (Received): 0	10/10

April 3rd, 2004, 03:30 AM	#78
7 World Trade Long live the Twins! Join Date: Aug 2003 Location: SF Bay Area Posts: 1,116 Likes (Received): 0	aww...it's not that bad, it has a real sleek look to its facade. pretty nice for an international-style era skyscraper. but i think trump toronto is more worthy to be the tallest in toronto. 8/10 __________________ UNWAVERING SUPPORTER OF THE REBUILDING OF THE WTC TWIN TOWERS Team Twin Towers- Standing Tall Together Twin Towers Alliance- What the People want-What New York Needs-What America Deserves The Ground Zero Rebuilding Scandal- Justin Berzon's complete story of the WTC rebuilding scandal Proud fan of NASCAR drivers Kevin Harvick and Scott Wimmer

April 3rd, 2004, 12:15 PM	#79
bohemian\|senses Guest Posts: n/a Likes (Received):	I know it's plain a and boxy but it's a magnificent scraper! There's just something about the simplicity and whiteness that gives the building a glorious purity. My favourite in Canada, not just because it's the tallest, but because for some reason it's very appealing to me. I also think the logo of the BMO is very fitting, I like the blue and white combination--even if almost negligible--. They should whiten the plates, also some of them are missing...that's a bit of a downer. 10/10

May 20th, 2004, 08:45 PM	#80
Desven ...und so halt! Join Date: May 2004 Location: WestWood baby! Posts: 618 Likes (Received): 6	no special,but its high and quite beautiful 7/10 __________________ Hä,wo ist meine Signatur hin?!

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